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N9FE
09-24-2010, 06:03 AM
Amateur Radio License W8ROX

EB-10-GB-0104

Dear Mr. Hathaway:

In March of 2010, the Commission received several complaints of
interference to the Century Club Net operating on 3902 KHz. At my request,
staff at the Commission's monitoring station began investigating in order
to determine the location of the interference. Over the next month, the
staff at the monitoring station confirmed that the interference was taking
place and used their direction finding equipment to determine that the
signal was coming from a location north of Athens, Ohio. The Commission's
Detroit Field Office was notified and they began a field investigation
into the matter. On July 21, 2010 at approximately 10:20 PM, the field
agents heard an audible transmission interrupt the ongoing Century Club
Net. They began using their vehicle's direction finding equipment to
determine the location of the offending party. At 12:40 AM, they had a
positive DF to a beam antenna located at (address withheld). At that time,
they knocked on the door and attempted to inspect the station. No one
answered the door. They returned the next day at 4:21 PM and inspected the
station.

During the inspection, you indicated to the agents that you were unaware
that your station had been transmitting during the time in question
because you had been having problems with your push to talk button getting
turned on accidentally. As part of the inspection, the agents took
pictures of your equipment, including a close up of your push to talk
button and its relative position to your microphone and the rest of your
equipment. Your argument that you were unaware that your station had been
transmitting during the time in question because of this problem with your
push to talk button is unpersuasive. One of the Commission's field agents
specifically noted in his report that your push to talk button is not
located on or near the rest of your equipment as it is strung through the
handle of your desk drawer and away from the desk top where the remainder
of your equipment is located. Moreover, according to the agents, the push
to talk button appeared to be in working order during the inspection.

Your operation as described above, and verified by the Commission's field
staff, is contrary to the basis and purpose of the amateur radio service
as set out in Section 97.1 of the Commission's rules and a violation of
Section 97.101(d). Please be advised that the Commission expects you to
abide by its rules. This letter serves as notice that, if operation of
this type reoccurs after receipt of this letter, you could be subject to
severe penalties, including license revocation, monetary forfeiture
(fines), or a modification proceeding to restrict the frequencies upon
which you may operate.

Sincerely,

Laura L. Smith

About ten more to go !!!

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 06:12 AM
Nice. More of this and maybe the bands will be a little cleaner.

KC2UGV
09-24-2010, 06:17 AM
Wait, the FCC still has mobile monitoring teams? I thought those went the way of the dodo?

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 06:28 AM
Wait, the FCC still has mobile monitoring teams? I thought those went the way of the dodo?

You've obviously never hunted down pirates with David Vigilone. :yes: :mrgreen:

I think I've worked with our field office to track down half a dozen pirates and other interference problems over the years. The vehicle they use is pretty cool. No visible antennae, it's all built into the roof and they can monitor anything from DC to daylight, display occupied bandwidth, spurious emissions, field strength, etc. You've probably sat behind David V. at a traffic light and never knew it. Last pirate bust I assisted with was on the roof of the Fairfax and he was running about 50 watts into a vertical dipole on 95.7.

Personally I think the FM "pirate" issue would completely go away if the FCC would stop bowing to Big Radio and allocate some FM spectrum to low power unlicensed stations allowed to run a watt or two like they do in Canada and other places.

Back to the ham bands... If they'd just enforce the rules like this more often the bands would be a lot more pleasant.

N8YX
09-24-2010, 06:57 AM
You've obviously never hunted down pirates with David Vigilone. :yes: :mrgreen:

I think I've worked with our field office to track down half a dozen pirates and other interference problems over the years. The vehicle they use is pretty cool. No visible antennae, it's all built into the roof and they can monitor anything from DC to daylight, display occupied bandwidth, spurious emissions, field strength, etc. You've probably sat behind David V. at a traffic light and never knew it. Last pirate bust I assisted with was on the roof of the Fairfax and he was running about 50 watts into a vertical dipole on 95.7.

Personally I think the FM "pirate" issue would completely go away if the FCC would stop bowing to Big Radio and allocate some FM spectrum to low power unlicensed stations allowed to run a watt or two like they do in Canada and other places.

Back to the ham bands... If they'd just enforce the rules like this more often the bands would be a lot more pleasant.
Ask them how they're doing WRT shortwave pirates, particularly those who operate right below 40M (and have done so for years).

Ham jammers could stand to borrow a technique or two from their pirate brethren. It's very hard to hit a moving, intermittent target. It's also very hard to locate someone with that fancy DF equipment when they've backpacked into a deserted, wooded area, set up a semi-permanent, well hidden stash of batteries and a solar charger then carried a K2 or similar lightweight rig along and strung up a very unobtrusive wire antenna...

W3WN
09-24-2010, 08:01 AM
I know it's never going to happen, but I for one would be happy to pay a reasonable license renewal fee (in the $10 to $20 range) if the revenue generated would go directly to funding the FCC enforcement people.

The bands would clean up in relatively no time. And some miscreants who would object to paying the guvmint a red cent would drop out altogether.

Makes too much sense though. It will never happen.

N8YX
09-24-2010, 08:16 AM
I know it's never going to happen, but I for one would be happy to pay a reasonable license renewal fee (in the $10 to $20 range) if the revenue generated would go directly to funding the FCC enforcement people.

The bands would clean up in relatively no time. And some miscreants who would object to paying the guvmint a red cent would drop out altogether.

Makes too much sense though. It will never happen.
What would be more effective is the in rem seizure and auctioning off of repeat violators' equipment, or the immediate levy of stiff fines. Accompanied by property liens, if necessary.

The tools are out there. The will is not.

W2NAP
09-24-2010, 08:24 AM
Personally I think the FM "pirate" issue would completely go away if the FCC would stop bowing to Big Radio and allocate some FM spectrum to low power unlicensed stations allowed to run a watt or two like they do in Canada and other places.



they should quit bowing to big corp radio. and also they should not let these bible banger groups buy a shit load of stations and also toss up hundreds of translators everywhere..

just in my area i count 30 bible banger stations on FM

ALSO, tighten ownership rules. your allowed 1 AM and 1 FM per market

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 11:11 AM
I know it's never going to happen, but I for one would be happy to pay a reasonable license renewal fee (in the $10 to $20 range) if the revenue generated would go directly to funding the FCC enforcement people.

The bands would clean up in relatively no time. And some miscreants who would object to paying the guvmint a red cent would drop out altogether.

Makes too much sense though. It will never happen.

I'd pay it. And yeah it probably would clean things up a bit.

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 11:11 AM
What would be more effective is the in rem seizure and auctioning off of repeat violators' equipment, or the immediate levy of stiff fines. Accompanied by property liens, if necessary.

The tools are out there. The will is not.

That's what they USED to do.

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 11:16 AM
they should quit bowing to big corp radio. and also they should not let these bible banger groups buy a shit load of stations and also toss up hundreds of translators everywhere..

just in my area i count 30 bible banger stations on FM

I'm with ya there. Believe it or not I was offered a job 10 years ago to work for AFA/AFR. (http://www.afa.net/radio/) They had fired the guy who designed all the software for their audio/scheduling feeds to their transmitters/satellators. I didn't take the job, but I did interview and was offered it. Don Wildmon himself actually offered to pay for my down payment on a house to get me there. Glad I didn't take it, now...

Anyway, yeah I love how the argument against LPFM was 3rd adjacent interference and yet there are satellators all over the place on 3rd and even 2nd adjacent. Add to the fact that they had to amend the rules requiring a main studio within the city grade contour and it's just ridiculous what they got away with. Were it up to me all those satellators would go off the air tomorrow and LPFM licenses would be issued to local licensees in their place.




ALSO, tighten ownership rules. your allowed 1 AM and 1 FM per marketCorporate interests in Big Radio will make sure that never happens.

KC2UGV
09-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, LPFM would have been the cure for the current state of affairs with Radio. Same with LPAM. Sadly that was killed by not Rupert and Co. alone, but surprisingly, also NPR.

W2NAP
09-24-2010, 06:06 PM
i remember the original talk with LPFM. how it was going to be good for the community. funny thing is every damn LPFM i have heard has been bible bangers. both of them near me 99.1 and 107.5 both bible bangers no use to the community they are in (muncie and new castle) as far as im concerned 1 bible banger station in the area is enough seriously. we have WGNR 97.9 50KW covers a good majority of central indiana. so there is no need for the dozens and dozens i can pick up.

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 06:10 PM
i remember the original talk with LPFM. how it was going to be good for the community. funny thing is every damn LPFM i have heard has been bible bangers. both of them near me 99.1 and 107.5 both bible bangers no use to the community they are in (muncie and new castle) as far as im concerned 1 bible banger station in the area is enough seriously. we have WGNR 97.9 50KW covers a good majority of central indiana. so there is no need for the dozens and dozens i can pick up.

That's because they put so many ownership restrictions on LPFM it made it darn near impossible for anyone but a church or the Rotary Club to get a license.

W2NAP
09-24-2010, 06:14 PM
soon the FM band will end up like SW

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 06:23 PM
soon the FM band will end up like SW

Well FWIW I think the Entercoms, Regents, Clear Channels and Emmis' of this world don't provide programming that's any better than the Bible humpers. I simply don't listen and haven't for years except when I listened to check audio quality. Test tones were the highlight of the programming on those stations. Of course, my listening tastes are far from mainstream. Scottish, Irish and Brit folk are pretty much the bulk of my music staple. If I listen to anything on terrestrial radio it's Canadian.

KJ3N
09-24-2010, 08:55 PM
Well FWIW I think the Entercoms, Regents, Clear Channels and Emmis' of this world don't provide programming that's any better than the Bible humpers.

Yanni would preferable to the Bible Humpers. :roll: :yuck: :vomit:

K6BSO
09-24-2010, 09:07 PM
Yanni would preferable to the Bible Humpers. :roll: :yuck: :vomit:

Okay, Yani maybe. But not Justin Bieber.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/625ebb7a-de3b-44b9-98d1-d2607038c416.jpg

W2NAP
09-24-2010, 09:14 PM
Okay, Yani maybe. But not Justin Bieber.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/625ebb7a-de3b-44b9-98d1-d2607038c416.jpg

hahaha!

KC2UGV
09-24-2010, 09:23 PM
i remember the original talk with LPFM. how it was going to be good for the community. funny thing is every damn LPFM i have heard has been bible bangers. both of them near me 99.1 and 107.5 both bible bangers no use to the community they are in (muncie and new castle) as far as im concerned 1 bible banger station in the area is enough seriously. we have WGNR 97.9 50KW covers a good majority of central indiana. so there is no need for the dozens and dozens i can pick up.

Are you sure those are LPFM stations?

N2CHX
09-24-2010, 09:29 PM
Yanni would preferable to the Bible Humpers. :roll: :yuck: :vomit:

Hey, I like Yanni :lol:

KJ3N
09-24-2010, 09:54 PM
Hey, I like Yanni :lol:

Now I know what's really wrong with you. ;) :lol:

W2NAP
09-25-2010, 02:21 AM
yea there both lpfm

N2CHX
09-25-2010, 03:51 AM
Now I know what's really wrong with you. ;) :lol:

You're just now figuring this out?

W6EM
09-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Now, that you all have had your piece of the "Hat's off to Laura" rag, what about the FCC's (her?) "look the other way" behavior? Like all the cops without licenses using 2M radios in Indianapolis. A major serial crime with no punishment. And, the ReconRobotics "Fuzz-TV" robot giveaway of our 70cM band?

Then, there's the Enfarcement Bureau's issuance of a citation to a poor, hapless consumer in LA using a Philips active TV antenna atop her TV. One that was "type accepted" by the FCC's OET laboratory, yet it interfered with a cell network.

There's a clear pattern here , if you haven't caught on. If you are the cops, then you can do anything you want and get away with it. And, if you want to sell a tool to the cops, well, no problem if it interferes with licensed spectrum users. And, if you're one of the big telecom business interests that pays zillions for spectrum, like a cellular provider, you can get anyone crushed at your disgression. And the FCC shows no mercy in crushing little people.

Now, is it still "Hat's off to Laura?"

73,

Lee

ab1ga
09-26-2010, 06:12 PM
Considering the new information,
and the length of her tenure to date,
and the phase of the moon,

Yep.

N9FE
09-27-2010, 10:57 AM
I never said hats off. Its more like its about time. And many more to go.

K6BSO
09-27-2010, 11:16 AM
I have the FCC Enforcement Actions page bookmarked and check it out every so often. Most of the time, the issues are dull and predictable--guys running linears on their CBs and the like--but once in a while something interesting comes along:


January 25, 2010

Mr. James O. Stetson

Amateur Radio License N0IZJ

Dear Mr. Stetson:

By letter dated December 11, 2009, the Commission notified you that it had
received numerous complaints regarding the operation of your amateur
station. The complaints allege that you have been using the local repeater
on 147.345 to conduct the business of selling burial monuments in
violation of Section 97.113(a)(3) of the Commission's rules. The letter
further noted that the written complaints were supported by recordings of
several on-air conversations of you engaging in the above-referenced
behavior. A copy of the complaints and the recordings were sent to you for
your review.

You responded to the Commission's letter on December 28, 2009. In that
letter, you indicate that you serve on a volunteer cemetery board and work
with the monument companies in your area who have sold the monuments to
interested parties. You maintain that you do not sell the monuments and
never have. But, you concede that you locate the lot on behalf of the
monument company and then mark the appropriate location for them to affix
the monument. You indicate that you are often on the road and allow the
monument companies to contact you on the reverse auto patch via your two
meter handheld radio when you are needed.

Your operation as described above is contrary to the basis and purpose of
the amateur radio service as set out in Section 97.1 of the Commission's
rules. Please be advised that the Commission expects you to abide by its
rules. This letter serves as notice that, if operation of this type
reoccurs after receipt of this letter, you could be subject to severe
penalties, including license revocation, monetary forfeiture (fines), or a
modification proceeding to restrict the frequencies upon which you may
operate.

Sincerely,

Laura L. Smith

Special Counsel

N2CHX
09-27-2010, 11:36 AM
I have the FCC Enforcement Actions page bookmarked and check it out every so often. Most of the time, the issues are dull and predictable--guys running linears on their CBs and the like--but once in a while something interesting comes along:

People still use autopatch? Why on earth would the guy do this? Well, other than the fact that I imagine it's great for business, considering the age of your average ham operator. :lol:

K6BSO
09-27-2010, 11:39 AM
People still use autopatch? Why on earth would the guy do this? Well, other than the fact that I imagine it's great for business, considering the age of your average ham operator. :lol:

I don't know how things are in other places but we're down to exactly one remaining autopatch in the San Diego area. They were going to pull the plug on that one, too, but decided to leave it as an emergency back-up should the cellular system go down during a disaster.

W3WN
09-27-2010, 08:49 PM
Now, that you all have had your piece of the "Hat's off to Laura" rag, what about the FCC's (her?) "look the other way" behavior? Like all the cops without licenses using 2M radios in Indianapolis. A major serial crime with no punishment. And, the ReconRobotics "Fuzz-TV" robot giveaway of our 70cM band?

Then, there's the Enfarcement Bureau's issuance of a citation to a poor, hapless consumer in LA using a Philips active TV antenna atop her TV. One that was "type accepted" by the FCC's OET laboratory, yet it interfered with a cell network.

There's a clear pattern here , if you haven't caught on. If you are the cops, then you can do anything you want and get away with it. And, if you want to sell a tool to the cops, well, no problem if it interferes with licensed spectrum users. And, if you're one of the big telecom business interests that pays zillions for spectrum, like a cellular provider, you can get anyone crushed at your disgression. And the FCC shows no mercy in crushing little people.

Now, is it still "Hat's off to Laura?"

73,

Lee
Gee Lee, how did I know this was from you as soon as I read it (and before checking the left column)?

I do not dispute the bulk of your comments. But what do they have to do with someone thanking Laura for finding and stopping a jammer? Are you saying we can't give her a proverbial or metaphysical pat on the bat because other parts of the FCC are lousy?

KC2UGV
09-28-2010, 06:41 AM
Now, that you all have had your piece of the "Hat's off to Laura" rag, what about the FCC's (her?) "look the other way" behavior? Like all the cops without licenses using 2M radios in Indianapolis. A major serial crime with no punishment. And, the ReconRobotics "Fuzz-TV" robot giveaway of our 70cM band?

Then, there's the Enfarcement Bureau's issuance of a citation to a poor, hapless consumer in LA using a Philips active TV antenna atop her TV. One that was "type accepted" by the FCC's OET laboratory, yet it interfered with a cell network.

There's a clear pattern here , if you haven't caught on. If you are the cops, then you can do anything you want and get away with it. And, if you want to sell a tool to the cops, well, no problem if it interferes with licensed spectrum users. And, if you're one of the big telecom business interests that pays zillions for spectrum, like a cellular provider, you can get anyone crushed at your disgression. And the FCC shows no mercy in crushing little people.

Now, is it still "Hat's off to Laura?"

73,

Lee

Laura is chief of amateur enforcement, not spectrum allocation, not of the licensing bureau, etc. The "look the other way" is not necessarily her attitude, but of the FCC's.

N8YX
09-28-2010, 07:04 AM
Laura is chief of amateur enforcement, not spectrum allocation, not of the licensing bureau, etc. The "look the other way" is not necessarily her attitude, but of the FCC's.
This is correct.

KJ3N
09-28-2010, 09:45 AM
Laura is chief of amateur enforcement, not spectrum allocation, not of the licensing bureau, etc. The "look the other way" is not necessarily her attitude, but of the FCC's.

Never let facts get in the way of a good stupid rant. :naughty:

WTKX
09-28-2010, 10:19 AM
... and Yanni sucks.

:bbh:

N2CHX
09-28-2010, 12:51 PM
... and Yanni sucks.

:bbh:

Bite yer tongue


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U79esEAO7kk

WTKX
09-28-2010, 08:53 PM
Yea yea yea, I'll raise yer Yanni with Peaches en Regalia, Peaches!

Just as inspiring, and it grooves + rocks! :neener:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOyYq_4G-d4

W6EM
09-29-2010, 09:36 PM
Gee Lee, how did I know this was from you as soon as I read it (and before checking the left column)?

I do not dispute the bulk of your comments. But what do they have to do with someone thanking Laura for finding and stopping a jammer? Are you saying we can't give her a proverbial or metaphysical pat on the bat because other parts of the FCC are lousy?

The examples of criticism cited were inappropriate Enforcement Bureau actions. Either hers or her chum buds or bosses. Nothing to do with other FCC bureaus. Did I say that her action was inappropritate with respect to the jammer in question? No.

Accollades are deserved when a demonstrated long history of competent behavior has occurred, not where enforcement of laws and rules occurs selectively.

Failure to cite police agencies or a manufacturer/marketer of unlicensed transmitters was an Enforcement Bureau matter. Just as it was for them to cite the citizen who used a Philips active TV antenna. All of the area offices are divisions of the Enforcement Bureau.

WX7P
09-30-2010, 09:57 AM
The examples of criticism cited were inappropriate Enforcement Bureau actions. Either hers or her chum buds or bosses. Nothing to do with other FCC bureaus. Did I say that her action was inappropritate with respect to the jammer in question? No.

Accollades are deserved when a demonstrated long history of competent behavior has occurred, not where enforcement of laws and rules occurs selectively.


I disagree. If they are doing something right, there's no reason not to give a kudo.

Could the enforcement bureau do more? Yes. I think it's counterproductive to constantly bash them especially when they do the right thing once in awhile.

This is a Pandora's box, I probably shouldn't open, but what "selective enforcement"? Are you saying the FCC has all the resources it needs to take out every jammer and non-type accepted radio in the country? I suspect most of what goes on is damage control and in response to specific complaints.

KC2UGV
09-30-2010, 10:24 AM
The examples of criticism cited were inappropriate Enforcement Bureau actions. Either hers or her chum buds or bosses. Nothing to do with other FCC bureaus. Did I say that her action was inappropritate with respect to the jammer in question? No.

Accollades are deserved when a demonstrated long history of competent behavior has occurred, not where enforcement of laws and rules occurs selectively.

Failure to cite police agencies or a manufacturer/marketer of unlicensed transmitters was an Enforcement Bureau matter. Just as it was for them to cite the citizen who used a Philips active TV antenna. All of the area offices are divisions of the Enforcement Bureau.

I'm not sure how to better explain this to you, than I already have:

Laura Smith is Chief of Amateur Enforcement. She has nothing to do with enforcement of Part 15, Part 90, Part 191, or any other part of the FCC except for Part 97. You can not blame her for mistakes made by other branches of the FCC.

N9FE
09-30-2010, 11:20 AM
Everyone is welcome to listen to 3.913 at 3pm till 6pm central time. The music begins at 4pm and the usual jamming is constant. These same individuals have been doing this for over ten years now. Yes there locations and calls were sent to Riley and now Laura many many times by operators all over the country. Not one thing has been done.

WX7P
09-30-2010, 11:46 AM
Everyone is welcome to listen to 3.913 at 3pm till 6pm central time. The music begins at 4pm and the usual jamming is constant. These same individuals have been doing this for over ten years now. Yes there locations and calls were sent to Riley and now Laura many many times by operators all over the country. Not one thing has been done.

HEY!

Bring back the cats!

W3WN
09-30-2010, 11:48 AM
The examples of criticism cited were inappropriate Enforcement Bureau actions. Either hers or her chum buds or bosses. Nothing to do with other FCC bureaus. Did I say that her action was inappropritate with respect to the jammer in question? No.

Accollades are deserved when a demonstrated long history of competent behavior has occurred, not where enforcement of laws and rules occurs selectively.

Failure to cite police agencies or a manufacturer/marketer of unlicensed transmitters was an Enforcement Bureau matter. Just as it was for them to cite the citizen who used a Philips active TV antenna. All of the area offices are divisions of the Enforcement Bureau.
I see Lee hasn't changed a bit. Facts and details should never get in the way of a good rant.

sarcasm
Yeah. I mean, the rest of the Enforcement Bureau are a bunch of (foul)ups, so why should we give a kudo to Laura for doing the right thing for the Amateur Radio part of the Enforcement Bureau? /sarcasm

Of course, I mustn't forget Lee's longwinded opinion of the Commonwealth of Pa's passing of a PRB-1 type bill. I always liked how he felt his rantings were worth much more than Mike K3AIR's... especially when you consider that Mike is a lawyer and worked on the passage of the bill.

Like I said, nothing's changed much.

KC2UGV
09-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Everyone is welcome to listen to 3.913 at 3pm till 6pm central time. The music begins at 4pm and the usual jamming is constant. These same individuals have been doing this for over ten years now. Yes there locations and calls were sent to Riley and now Laura many many times by operators all over the country. Not one thing has been done.

What are the document numbers for the FCC reply to the interference complaints?

W6EM
09-30-2010, 05:49 PM
I see Lee hasn't changed a bit. Facts and details should never get in the way of a good rant.

It's funny how some folks in PA have selective filtering turned on such that quoted, substantiated information escapes them as less than the truth. Perhaps its some of that "Z-7" Pennzoil additive that leaked into the ground water.



Of course, I mustn't forget Lee's longwinded opinion of the Commonwealth of Pa's passing of a PRB-1 type bill. I always liked how he felt his rantings were worth much more than Mike K3AIR's... especially when you consider that Mike is a lawyer and worked on the passage of the bill.

Like I said, nothing's changed much.

When all else fails, obfuscate with some useless persiflage. PA's PRB-1 is no better than the real one at 47CFR97.15(b). Oh, I guess at least another half dozen states have done the same thing as PA. Most long before it did anything.

As an astute attorney told me, having state-specific copies of PRB-1 have no effect whatsoever unless one goes to court to strike down whatever ordinance or action is conceived and promulgated by local authorities. They can continue to get away with absurd, unfair restrictions on amateur antennas, even in the Keystone state, until someone goes to the trouble and expense of challenging them, one by one, in court.

(break)

If Dr. Laura's title is Special Counsel for Enforcement (amateur radio plus other things) I would think that matters involving amateur radio would be her direct responsibility and no one else's (or, by now we'd have heard about someone else doing amateur radio related enforcement). Perhaps the citation to the woman with the set top antenna wasn't her doing. But, certainly the Indy cops and the cops using ReconRobots without a license or Special Temporary Authority on 70cM would be in her territory.

Hey, maybe she's trying to make amends for those two egregious enfarcement lapses. Frankly, I couldn't care less about one letter to a jammer. Go after the cops in Indianapolis and those in four other cities who illegally used 70cM, then she'll be worthy of kudos......and lots of them.

W3WN
09-30-2010, 07:11 PM
Pennzoil? Ooooo. I'm insulted.

Well Lee, you can insult me as much as you want. I will stack your unnamed (and up until now never before mentioned) attorney against Mike K3AIR, Esq. I'd add "put up or shut up" only I know you'll do neither.

Now the personal nonsense aside, the facts remain, Lee, that your are complaining because Laura Smith didn't take action in matters outside of her area of influence. So what's your point? That she should overstep and get in trouble with bureaucracy?

W6EM
09-30-2010, 10:52 PM
......
Now the personal nonsense aside, the facts remain, Lee, that your are complaining because Laura Smith didn't take action in matters outside of her area of influence. So what's your point? That she should overstep and get in trouble with bureaucracy?

No, again you have a penchant for selective reading. Amateur radio enforcement is supposed to be "her thing" exclusively. So, selective amateur unenforcement isn't outside her area. Simply examples of her dereliction of duty, IMO.

Violations of Part 97 occurred, she was aware of them, and she took no action. Non-amateur-licensed men-in-blue, individuals operating on amateur bands. Two glaring examples.

KC2UGV
10-01-2010, 06:31 AM
No, again you have a penchant for selective reading. Amateur radio enforcement is supposed to be "her thing" exclusively. So, selective amateur unenforcement isn't outside her area. Simply examples of her dereliction of duty, IMO.

Violations of Part 97 occurred, she was aware of them, and she took no action. Non-amateur-licensed men-in-blue, individuals operating on amateur bands. Two glaring examples.

The non-amateur-licensed men-in-blue were cited for their violation... As for the individuals operating unlicensed on ham bands, what are the file numbers for the complaints to the FCC?

W6EM
10-01-2010, 10:14 PM
The non-amateur-licensed men-in-blue were cited for their violation... As for the individuals operating unlicensed on ham bands, what are the file numbers for the complaints to the FCC?

Really? I don't recall reading about the citations or any NAL fines assessed either to individuals or departments. Now, were these "men-in-blue" from Indianapolis or from the four departments using the robots without licenses? Indy supposedly only suffered a phone call from the commission.

As to complaints, I can't speak for Indy, other than it was reported that at least two local amateurs complained. As to ReconRobotics customers, I am a complainant and my complaint is imbedded in a formal Petition for Reconsideration of the Waiver grant.

KC2UGV
10-01-2010, 10:44 PM
Really? I don't recall reading about the citations or any NAL fines assessed either to individuals or departments. Now, were these "men-in-blue" from Indianapolis or from the four departments using the robots without licenses? Indy supposedly only suffered a phone call from the commission.

As to complaints, I can't speak for Indy, other than it was reported that at least two local amateurs complained. As to ReconRobotics customers, I am a complainant and my complaint is imbedded in a formal Petition for Reconsideration of the Waiver grant.

What are the file numbers of the instances you are referring to? Every document from any government agency has a file number, which is unique.

NA4BH
10-02-2010, 12:06 AM
What are the file numbers of the instances you are referring to? Every document from any government agency has a file number, which is unique.

Repost in all caps, you must not be getting out too good. :lol: :lol:

W6EM
10-02-2010, 11:12 AM
What are the file numbers of the instances you are referring to? Every document from any government agency has a file number, which is unique.

You tell me, since you are the one who said the men-in-blue had been cited. The ball's in your court. And, I don't think you can catch.

You must know what you seek from me if you know they've been cited. Use the FCC ECFS and search for either my name or ReconRobotics and you'll find my petition and complaint.

KC2UGV
10-02-2010, 12:15 PM
You tell me, since you are the one who said the men-in-blue had been cited. The ball's in your court. And, I don't think you can catch.

You must know what you seek from me if you know they've been cited. Use the FCC ECFS and search for either my name or ReconRobotics and you'll find my petition and complaint.

Well, I have to admit, they were not fined. However, the stink had the FCC out there inspecting their patrol units, verifying removal of the equipment: http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=45527

In order to do that, there must have been a citation, at the very least.

So, for your petition, and your complaint, I'm not going out hunting for you. What is the URL for your petition? Or doc number for their reply?

W6EM
10-02-2010, 03:30 PM
..
So, for your petition, and your complaint, I'm not going out hunting for you. What is the URL for your petition? Or doc number for their reply?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020394592

W6EM
10-02-2010, 03:36 PM
Well, I have to admit, they were not fined. However, the stink had the FCC out there inspecting their patrol units, verifying removal of the equipment: http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=45527

In order to do that, there must have been a citation, at the very least.

Not quite. Read the article again:
"Apparently, there has been a problem with some language, which is a violation of the FCC regulations," said Indianapolis police Lt. Jeff Duhamell. "The chief has decided that the officers should pull them out of their vehicles."

The tarnished brass told their subordinates to get the radios out. There should have been a HUGE fine and sanctions against their public safety radio license as well as individual prosecutions. Perhaps even no radios of any kind for a while. Make them use cells phones.

The reason the FCC did nothing was rumored to be because Laura's father is a retired chief of police. There, there, boys......

KC2UGV
10-02-2010, 04:02 PM
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020394592

Ok, so, what was their reply?

KC2UGV
10-02-2010, 04:04 PM
Not quite. Read the article again:

The tarnished brass told their subordinates to get the radios out. There should have been a HUGE fine and sanctions against their public safety radio license as well as individual prosecutions. Perhaps even no radios of any kind for a while. Make them use cells phones.

The reason the FCC did nothing was rumored to be because Laura's father is a retired chief of police. There, there, boys......

Yep, the government makes the government pay a fine.

More or less, zero sum: The tax payer would have paid the fine. So, why levy the fine? The radios were removed, no more band transgressions. Problem solved. So, if the problem is solved, why put a burden onto the taxpayers?

W6EM
10-02-2010, 04:49 PM
Ok, so, what was their reply?

Nada. Nothing. It's somewhat sad to see the best government money can buy in action. But, that's what we've got going here.

The answer is, for me, ARRL, and the rest of amateur radio: "We let the local governments do whatever they want. They're above the law." Or, if the head of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau says "slide this under the radar" to the Enfarcement Bureau, they do.

W6EM
10-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Yep, the government makes the government pay a fine.

More or less, zero sum: The tax payer would have paid the fine. So, why levy the fine? The radios were removed, no more band transgressions. Problem solved. So, if the problem is solved, why put a burden onto the taxpayers?

I seem to remember a Philadelphia government agency being nailed rather heavily by the commission.

I guess, then, you must think that when a cop violates the civil rights of an individual, he or she shouldn't be prosecuted by the feds? Amazing.

W3WN
10-02-2010, 07:19 PM
And there you have it. Lee doesn't want us to praise Laura for doing something right and taking appropriate action, because her father was a cop. And, it's all the ARRL's fault.

Lee will now be true to form and try an insult me, using some obscure fact that he thinks he knows about Pa.

I'm quivering in my boots.

KC2UGV
10-02-2010, 07:38 PM
Nada. Nothing. It's somewhat sad to see the best government money can buy in action. But, that's what we've got going here.

The answer is, for me, ARRL, and the rest of amateur radio: "We let the local governments do whatever they want. They're above the law." Or, if the head of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau says "slide this under the radar" to the Enfarcement Bureau, they do.

They had to reply something. They posted the doc, so there had to have been some sort of reply...

I seem to remember a Philadelphia government agency being nailed rather heavily by the commission.

I guess, then, you must think that when a cop violates the civil rights of an individual, he or she shouldn't be prosecuted by the feds? Amazing.

Who said anything about that? Of course they should be prosecuted. But, we are not talking about civil rights here.

W6EM
10-03-2010, 07:09 AM
They had to reply something. They posted the doc, so there had to have been some sort of reply...

I can see you have **zero** experience with the FCC.



Who said anything about that? Of course they should be prosecuted. But, we are not talking about civil rights here.

Just two other examples of inequity. One where a local government was rightfully prosecuted for breaking federal laws by the FCC. Another, an analogy, in response to your "government's all the same" statement. No, government isn't all the same in the US. We have separate states and localities. Some of their laws, rules and people that enforce them may violate more superior law, that of the federal government. If a local cop breaks a federal law in performing their duties, they ARE prosecuted.

If and when violations of federal law occur, prosecutions should occur, not intentional dereliction of duty by those in federal government.

Enough of my soapbox. A waste of time.

n0eq
10-04-2010, 06:51 PM
Yanni would preferable to the Bible Humpers. :roll: :yuck: :vomit:


http://www.digitalcartography.com/GILumpyDesertCamo.jpg

n0eq
10-04-2010, 07:12 PM
... There should have been a HUGE fine and sanctions against their public safety radio license as well as individual prosecutions. Perhaps even no radios of any kind for a while. Make them use cells phones ...



How much were you hoping the taxpayers of Indianapolis would be fined?

Make them not use radios for a while? That'll surely be a MUCH bigger
disaster to the community than the cops being on unlicensed ham freqs.

They stopped using the radios. The SkyPr0n whackers and the "Honey, I'm
on the way home" bunch can resume normal traffic. Any kind of punitive action,
such as you suggest, would turn right back around and burden the citizens.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

ki4itv
10-04-2010, 07:35 PM
Welcome back Lumpy.:yes:

n0eq
10-05-2010, 11:28 AM
ki4tiv wrote:
"Welcome back Lumpy"

Thanks! I've been busy with a modeling gig -

http://digitalcartography.com/camp/CraigPlaygirlCover.jpg

ki4itv
10-05-2010, 02:49 PM
:lol::lol:

I'm glad someone around here has it happening for them!

WTKX
10-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Bit it's been since 2008, or earlier. :whistle:

Wassup banana ears?

W6EM
10-05-2010, 03:23 PM
How much were you hoping the taxpayers of Indianapolis would be fined?

Enough to get the chief of police and his supervision FIRED. That's a reasonable outcome, since they were aware. The radios were installed by a PD technician of some sort.



Make them not use radios for a while? That'll surely be a MUCH bigger
disaster to the community than the cops being on unlicensed ham freqs.


Since every cop carries at least one cell phone these days, I think not. If the FCC shut down a Philadelphia area fire department radio for a while, why not the same for the Indy PD? Actually, since its reportedly a trunked system, all the other city services should lose out as well. Shut the whole f'ing trunked junk system down for a while so they all have to use their cell phones.



They stopped using the radios. The SkyPr0n whackers and the "Honey, I'm
on the way home" bunch can resume normal traffic. Any kind of punitive action,
such as you suggest, would turn right back around and burden the citizens.


Where were the citizens when this was going on? I'd bet besides the one night TV news clip, that was it and soon forgotten by the average Joe on the street. Yet, the FCC goes out of its way to heavily penalize hapless small businesses and individuals for lesser violations of the Communications Act. The FCC is the best government money can buy, bar none. Crooks extraordinaire.

n2ize
10-05-2010, 05:19 PM
Laura, is a face in the misty night
Those eyes, how familiar they seem
She gave to you, your very first fine
That was Laura
And she's not a dream...

n2ize
10-05-2010, 05:24 PM
How much were you hoping the taxpayers of Indianapolis would be fined?

Make them not use radios for a while? That'll surely be a MUCH bigger
disaster to the community than the cops being on unlicensed ham freqs.

They stopped using the radios. The SkyPr0n whackers and the "Honey, I'm
on the way home" bunch can resume normal traffic. Any kind of punitive action,
such as you suggest, would turn right back around and burden the citizens.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Hey man... glad to see ya back. Hope things are going good.

W6EM
10-05-2010, 06:50 PM
Laura, is a face in the misty night
Those eyes, how familiar they seem
She gave to you, your very first fine
And she's not a dream...

Nice poem. Hot nails. Do them yourself?

ki4itv
10-06-2010, 12:03 AM
Laura, is a face in the misty night
Those eyes, how familiar they seem
She gave to you, your very first fine
That was Laura
And she's not a dream...
:clap:


There's talk on the street; it sounds so familiar
Great expectations, everybody's watching you
The OP's you meet, they all seem to know you
Mostly the OF's treat you like you're something new

Laura come lately, the new head in town
Everybody loves you, so don't let them down

You listen to their lies; the music begins to play
Hopeless Lid antics, here we go again
But after awhile, you're lookin' the other way
It's those tire old farts that never mend

Laura come lately, the new head in town
Will hams still love you when you're not around?
There's so many things you should have told them,
but night after night you're willing to scold them,
Just hold nets, tears on your shoulder

There's talk on the street, it's there to
Remind you, that it doesn't really matter
which side you're on.
You're spinning away and they're talking behind you
They will never forget you 'til somebody new comes along
Where you been lately? There's a new head in town
Everybody loves her, don't they?
Now he's scorning her, and you're still around
Oh, my, my
There's a new head in town
just another new head in town
Ceee Que
Everybody's talking 'bout the new head in town,
Ceee Que
Everybody's sqwalkin' like the new head in town
There's a new head in town
Theres a new head in town people started walking
There's a new head in town
I don't want to hear it
There's a new head in town
I don't want to hear it

n0eq
10-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Since every cop carries at least one cell phone these days, I think not. If the FCC shut down a Philadelphia area fire department radio for a while, why not the same for the Indy PD?...



Hey! I just had a great idea.

Shut down the cop radios. Then get the local Ham-O-Whackers to ride along
with them and post a net controller at the cop shop. They could even use
the same frequencies that the cops were using previously.

For those xtra sensitive comm's they could use WinLink.

Seems like a Win-Win situation to me. Cops get their radios taken away.
And the boys in blue get a chance to see what some REAL purfeshunal
communicators do, when all else fails.

"Ok, Elmer. If we get into a fire fight, be sure you know
where the cigarette lighter outlet is"

"Bad Boys, Bad Boys...Whacha gonna do when they can't call you"


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
www.n0eq.com (http://www.n0eq.com)

ki4itv
10-06-2010, 12:40 AM
sniff, sniff, sniff...
There's a Winlink reference in here somewhere... I can tell it.
Smells slightly salty and stinks like ham dung.
sniff, sniff, sniff...
Ah yep.

WTKX
10-06-2010, 07:43 AM
Winlink comments from the MIA desert rat.... :lol:

W3WN
10-06-2010, 11:27 AM
Enough to get the chief of police and his supervision FIRED. That's a reasonable outcome, since they were aware. The radios were installed by a PD technician of some sort.

Since every cop carries at least one cell phone these days, I think not. If the FCC shut down a Philadelphia area fire department radio for a while, why not the same for the Indy PD? Actually, since its reportedly a trunked system, all the other city services should lose out as well. Shut the whole f'ing trunked junk system down for a while so they all have to use their cell phones.

Where were the citizens when this was going on? I'd bet besides the one night TV news clip, that was it and soon forgotten by the average Joe on the street. Yet, the FCC goes out of its way to heavily penalize hapless small businesses and individuals for lesser violations of the Communications Act. The FCC is the best government money can buy, bar none. Crooks extraordinaire.
So tell us Lee, what did the FCC reply to you when you asked them about the lack of enforcement action?

You DID complain directly to the FCC about this, didn't you?

N1LAF
10-06-2010, 03:54 PM
I can see you have **zero** experience with the FCC.


That is a good thing, isn't it???

n0eq
10-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Hey man... glad to see ya back. Hope things are going good.

Tanks!


Lump

n2ize
10-08-2010, 06:40 PM
Now, that you all have had your piece of the "Hat's off to Laura" rag, what about the FCC's (her?) "look the other way" behavior? Like all the cops without licenses using 2M radios in Indianapolis. A major serial crime with no punishment. And, the ReconRobotics "Fuzz-TV" robot giveaway of our 70cM band?

Then, there's the Enfarcement Bureau's issuance of a citation to a poor, hapless consumer in LA using a Philips active TV antenna atop her TV. One that was "type accepted" by the FCC's OET laboratory, yet it interfered with a cell network.

There's a clear pattern here , if you haven't caught on. If you are the cops, then you can do anything you want and get away with it. And, if you want to sell a tool to the cops, well, no problem if it interferes with licensed spectrum users. And, if you're one of the big telecom business interests that pays zillions for spectrum, like a cellular provider, you can get anyone crushed at your disgression. And the FCC shows no mercy in crushing little people.

Now, is it still "Hat's off to Laura?"

73,

Lee

yes, its still "hats off to Laura"

n2ize
10-08-2010, 06:42 PM
You've obviously never hunted down pirates with David Vigilone. :yes: :mrgreen:

.

Or with Judah Mansbach.

n0eq
10-09-2010, 12:44 AM
Or with Judah Mansbach.

Nor Ronald Regan,
Menochem Begin
or
Donald Fagen


Lump

n2ize
10-09-2010, 06:57 AM
But Mansbach did work for the FCC during the 1990's. He was active in the NYC area on into upstate NY. And he did track down pirate ops. Zealously.