PDA

View Full Version : Mac Versus PC



n2ize
08-07-2010, 03:42 PM
I got my first real close look at a Mac laptop today. My niece who will be attending NYU this fall bought a Mac for school. I am very impressed. If it were not for Linux I wouldn't buy anything but a Mac. So much nicer than that Windows crap. Like I say, I like Linux and, since it's available I'm OK with a PC. But otherwise I'd be a Mac man all the way.

NQ6U
08-07-2010, 03:57 PM
I got my first real close look at a Mac laptop today. My niece who will be attending NYU this fall bought a Mac for school. I am very impressed. If it were not for Linux I wouldn't buy anything but a Mac. So much nicer than that Windows crap. Like I say, I like Linux and, since it's available I'm OK with a PC. But otherwise I'd be a Mac man all the way.

Been a Mac man all the way for over 20 years now; they are the only way to go. I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro that I've got set to dual boot OS X and Ubuntu--it's possible to have the best of both worlds.

N2NH
08-07-2010, 06:44 PM
I'm using a friends Mac right now. I'm not impressed. My PC Quad Core 64bit with 4GB of gaming memory was impressive. In fact, the guy who owns this Mac is going to go that way with his next machine. Now that both PCs and Macs use Intel, there's a lot less difference between them IMHO.

W4RLR
08-07-2010, 07:48 PM
I'm using a friends Mac right now. I'm not impressed. My PC Quad Core 64bit with 4GB of gaming memory was impressive. In fact, the guy who owns this Mac is going to go that way with his next machine. Now that both PCs and Macs use Intel, there's a lot less difference between them IMHO.To each his own. If you want to use a computer, get a Mac. If you want to take apart, customize, and tweak a computer, a PC is more your speed.

You only see me using PC and Windows stuff under protest. I have a house FULL of Macs of various vintages, the oldest being twelve years old and still doing daily service. Try THAT with a PC!

NQ6U
08-07-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm using a friends Mac right now.

What model Mac are we talking about here? One can't compare Apples and oranges.

N1LAF
08-07-2010, 08:11 PM
We are fortunate to have choices today on operating systems, and it seems that Apple is encouraging dual boot of their systems.

kd8dey
08-07-2010, 10:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c&feature=player_embedded

n2ize
08-08-2010, 03:13 AM
Mind, I am not saying there is anything wrong with PC's. As long as I don't have to run Windows I will probably continue to buy and use PC's.

KC9ECI
08-08-2010, 06:04 AM
Outside of my ipod, the last apple computer that I used was an Apple ][. Yesterday I was messing around with a live Android OS on a thumbdrive on my Acer netbook. Worked fairly well.

KG4CGC
08-08-2010, 07:00 AM
PC since DOS was a heifer calf.

KA5PIU
08-08-2010, 09:54 AM
Hello.

First. let us examine what makes the modern Mac.
This is an Intel or Asus board with a TPM chip to verify that it is to be a Mac, a minor BIOS change, a fancy case, but little more.
People run the Mac OS on other computers all the time.
The Dell Vostro A90 is a classic example.
http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook

NQ6U
08-08-2010, 10:44 AM
Hello.

First. let us examine what makes the modern Mac. [...] a minor BIOS change, a fancy case, but little more.
People run the Mac OS on other computers all the time.
The Dell Vostro A90 is a classic example.
http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook

Not quite right--Macs don't use BIOS, they use a more advanced firmware known as Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). It performs the same basic functions as BIOS but saying that it's a "minor BIOS change" is inaccurate. Windows can't handle EFI (although Linux can), which is why Apple created BootCamp for people who want to dual boot Windows on a Mac.

And saying that people run OS X on other computers all the time is also misleading; while it can certainly be done, only a very limited set of hardware will support doing it and even then, it's not for the faint heart.

W4GPL
08-08-2010, 10:52 AM
Not quite right--Macs don't use BIOS, they use a more advanced firmware known as Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). It performs the same basic functions as BIOS but saying that it's a "minor BIOS change" is inaccurate. Windows can't handle EFI (although Linux can), which is why Apple created BootCamp for people who want to dual boot Windows on a Mac.

And saying that people run OS X on other computers all the time is also misleading; while it can certainly be done, only a very limited set of hardware will support doing it and even then, it's not for the faint heart.:yes: It's the details based on facts that usually escape Rudy.

Mac OS is a nice operating system, but I'm not paying a hardware premium to be able to run it. If Apple sold a 100% ready for prime time classic 'PC based' x86-64 version, I might consider buying it -- but even then.. I don't see much advantage over just using Linux.

NQ6U
08-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Mac OS is a nice operating system, but I'm not paying a hardware premium to be able to run it. If Apple sold a 100% ready for prime time classic 'PC based' x86-64 version, I might consider buying it -- but even then.. I don't see much advantage over just using Linux.

I have just three words for you, son: Adobe Creative Suite. It won't run on Linux.

I like Linux too. In fact the computer I'm writing this on dual boots OS X and Ubuntu but in my world, one can't replace the other. YMMV.

KC2UGV
08-08-2010, 11:11 AM
Not quite right--Macs don't use BIOS, they use a more advanced firmware known as Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). It performs the same basic functions as BIOS but saying that it's a "minor BIOS change" is inaccurate. Windows can't handle EFI (although Linux can), which is why Apple created BootCamp for people who want to dual boot Windows on a Mac.

And saying that people run OS X on other computers all the time is also misleading; while it can certainly be done, only a very limited set of hardware will support doing it and even then, it's not for the faint heart.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749064%28WS.10%29.aspx

KA5PIU
08-08-2010, 11:13 AM
Hello.

BIOS is the generic term, Basic Input Output System.
The EFI is nothing more than an advanced BIOS.
There are Windows PC computers that use a form of EFI.
There are computers that can boot an entire OS from firmware, instant on and splashtop come to mind.
And to say that there is something all that special about the Mac BIOS? for the most part it is just the code, firmware that can be updated.
I bought a Mac laptop with a failed Intel motherboard and bad battery.
I was able to order a replacement board with instant on and extended crypto as well as TPM and full boot from network support.
After a BIOS update to make the new board like the old board it works exactly like the old board.
For the battery I replaced the Apple power board with the Intel solution and a generic battery pack.
That was 2 years ago and I have been using the thing ever since.
There is no voodoo science involved.
True, you need to chose the hardware carefully but it is not all that hard.

W4GPL
08-08-2010, 11:14 AM
I have just three words for you, son: Adobe Creative Suite. It won't run on Linux.

I like Linux too. In fact the computer I'm writing this on dual boots OS X and Ubuntu but in my world, one can't replace the other. YMMV.Sure. I get that some people have applications that require Windows or Mac.. I really don't. I keep Windows 7 on my desktop so I can play with Flight Simulator once every few months, other than that..

W4RLR
08-08-2010, 01:56 PM
PC since DOS was a heifer calf.Back before Windows, I was a batch file writing fool. Of course, that was during my early Air Force days, where the office was equipped with Zenith 286 machines and everyone was running WordStar. One of my duties was coordinating with several offices for base tours and orientation flights. I had macros in WordStar and batch files in DOS that would generate the letters for the PAO's signature, filling out all of the appropriate information. To me it was just using the tools available. To the PAO and the wing commander, I was a computing GOD.

N2NH
08-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Always liked PCs and I don't feel that I've missed anything. Wouldn't mind running Mac OS on the PC, but otherwise, there's nothing I find useful on a Mac. I even trouble-shot a down Mac Laptop a few years ago. Talk about building better idiots, someone found a way to munge the startup files.

I have found that Macs have a real place in my life though. Picked one up on the sidewalk in the trash the other day. It makes a great doorstop.

ka8ncr
08-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Always liked PCs and I don't feel that I've missed anything. Wouldn't mind running Mac OS on the PC, but otherwise, there's nothing I find useful on a Mac. I even trouble-shot a down Mac Laptop a few years ago. Talk about building better idiots, someone found a way to munge the startup files.




You don't find Perl, awk, sed, grep, find and a bunch more command line utilities that make Windows cmd look like a bootstrap loader, useful?

There's three things right there at support regular expressions. Windows? Not so much.

Sure, you get those on a Linux box. And you get stuck running XFree86 or Xorg. Neither of those make my nipples twinge.

n6hcm
08-09-2010, 05:52 AM
You don't find Perl, awk, sed, grep, find and a bunch more command line utilities that make Windows cmd look like a bootstrap loader, useful?

cygwin.

KC2UGV
08-09-2010, 05:59 AM
You don't find Perl, awk, sed, grep, find and a bunch more command line utilities that make Windows cmd look like a bootstrap loader, useful?

There's three things right there at support regular expressions. Windows? Not so much.

Sure, you get those on a Linux box. And you get stuck running XFree86 or Xorg. Neither of those make my nipples twinge.

Why are you stuck using XFree or Xorg? And, what don't you like about those? They basically just provide a video driver...

ka8ncr
08-09-2010, 08:20 AM
Why are you stuck using XFree or Xorg? And, what don't you like about those? They basically just provide a video driver...

What else are you going to use for video on Linux?

The problem is that they are terribly slow. Gnome is a good looking UI, but by the time you get that stapled onto a window manager driven by X, it's not particularly a good experience.

KC2UGV
08-09-2010, 08:51 AM
What else are you going to use for video on Linux?

The problem is that they are terribly slow. Gnome is a good looking UI, but by the time you get that stapled onto a window manager driven by X, it's not particularly a good experience.

Fresco, Y Window Manager, DirectFB, MicroXWin...

You have several options available.

As for it being "slow", compared to what? With a proper driver loaded, I've yet to see anything that's "faster" than X. Win32 and MacOS windowing is no faster than X. In fact, the windowing system is a moot point really when comparing speed alone. I've not seen any of them being faster than any other.

If it's Gnome that's slow, you have countless alternatives. BlackBox, XFCE, Ratpoison are among some of the fastest display managers I've seen, and beat the pants off of Win32 and MacOS when basing on speed alone.

n2ize
08-10-2010, 03:10 AM
Always liked PCs and I don't feel that I've missed anything. Wouldn't mind running Mac OS on the PC, but otherwise, there's nothing I find useful on a Mac. I even trouble-shot a down Mac Laptop a few years ago. Talk about building better idiots, someone found a way to munge the startup files.

I have found that Macs have a real place in my life though. Picked one up on the sidewalk in the trash the other day. It makes a great doorstop.

I re-engineered a few macs in my day. Talk about a nightmare. They seem pretty nice when they're running but the hardware looks like a bunch of Kindergaten kids designed it. Whew.

n2ize
08-10-2010, 03:11 AM
Fresco, Y Window Manager, DirectFB, MicroXWin...

You have several options available.

As for it being "slow", compared to what? With a proper driver loaded, I've yet to see anything that's "faster" than X. Win32 and MacOS windowing is no faster than X. In fact, the windowing system is a moot point really when comparing speed alone. I've not seen any of them being faster than any other.

If it's Gnome that's slow, you have countless alternatives. BlackBox, XFCE, Ratpoison are among some of the fastest display managers I've seen, and beat the pants off of Win32 and MacOS when basing on speed alone.

Actually I've never run into any major issues with the speed of any window manager. Only thing that was ever a nightmare for me was Winders. I sure as heck don;t mind using PC's as long as I don't havta use Winders.

ad4mg
08-10-2010, 04:55 AM
Actually I've never run into any major issues with the speed of any window manager. Only thing that was ever a nightmare for me was Winders. I sure as heck don;t mind using PC's as long as I don't havta use Winders.
Windows is a capable operating system, but I resent having to constantly pay for expensive upgrades. I stopped the upgrade cycle here at XP Pro. I won't have Vista or Windows 7 unless I buy a computer with it pre-installed. There's just no reason to shell out all that money when modern, capable, and up to date Linux distributions of all flavors are available for free.

Plus, I don't miss constantly working on the computers to remove viruses, trojans, and malware. I've settled on Ubuntu for all of my PC's, except my wife's laptop. She just can't seem to get comfortable with another OS.

W1GUH
08-10-2010, 07:41 AM
I re-engineered a few macs in my day. Talk about a nightmare. They seem pretty nice when they're running but the hardware looks like a bunch of Kindergaten kids designed it. Whew.

The whole company behaves like it's all Kindergarten kids.

W4GPL
08-10-2010, 07:50 AM
Actually I've never run into any major issues with the speed of any window manager.Yeah, I run Gnome (albeit pretty stripped back) on an AMD Athlon 2000 with 786MB of RAM. It's not fast, but it isn't horribly slow either. Running Blackbox makes it only marginally faster.

KC2UGV
08-10-2010, 08:19 AM
Yeah, I run Gnome (albeit pretty stripped back) on an AMD Athlon 2000 with 786MB of RAM. It's not fast, but it isn't horribly slow either. Running Blackbox makes it only marginally faster.

I've not seen any extreme performance bumps in switching windowing systems, at all. Blackbox and Ratpoison are my favorites, due to speed. But, it isn't performance speed, but rather a model of efficiency (my hands seldom leave the keyboard).

W4RLR
08-11-2010, 11:36 PM
The whole company behaves like it's all VERY VERY RICH Kindergarten kids.Fixed it for ya!

KG4CGC
08-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Well XP just did 10! Count them, 10! Security updates over here this morning.
At least my system is still working. Can't say the same for Icom's firmware updates! LOL!

NQ6U
08-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Well XP just did 10! Count them, 10! Security updates over here this morning.
At least my system is still working. Can't say the same for Icom's firmware updates! LOL!

My Icom is so old (IC-736) that it ain't got no stinkin' firmware!

(Actually, it does, but it's probably burned into a ROM and can't be updated without swapping chips.)

KG4CGC
08-12-2010, 03:23 PM
My Icom is so old (IC-736) that it ain't got no stinkin' firmware!

(Actually, it does, but it's probably burned into a ROM and can't be updated without swapping chips.)
If your old Icom is feeling a little droopy, try those little blue LEDs to perk things right, up.

n2ize
08-13-2010, 05:37 AM
My Icom is so old (IC-736) that it ain't got no stinkin' firmware!

(Actually, it does, but it's probably burned into a ROM and can't be updated without swapping chips.)

Firmware ?? What's that ? Can't seem to find it in any of my radios. What does it look like ? Is it those big rectangular iron things that weight about 50 lbs each and are bolted to the chassis ? They look pretty firm to me. Or those upside down bottle shaped things that are plugged into sockets and that light up when I turn it on ? Is firmware anything like them new fangled transistor things that I hear they are using in some of them new fangled radios these days ?

kf0rt
08-13-2010, 06:04 AM
I think it's just like softwear, only cooked a little longer.

I once told my idiot brother in law that I was a software engineer. He thought I was a lingerie designer.

True story.

KG4CGC
08-13-2010, 06:45 PM
I think it's just like softwear, only cooked a little longer.

I once told my idiot brother in law that I was a software engineer. He thought I was a lingerie designer.

True story.
I bet that's an actual fact.

NQ6U
08-13-2010, 07:01 PM
Firmware ?? What's that ? Can't seem to find it in any of my radios. What does it look like ?

On radios like yours, the firmware is firmly implanted in the space between the headphones.

W7XF
08-13-2010, 10:33 PM
On radios like yours, the firmware is firmly implanted in the space between the headphones.
Methinks that 'ware' isn't all that firm! :rofl: