First impression of Windows 7...

[N1LAF]

... that it sucks. I am running XP in Windows classic mode, and did not like the wasted space, arrangement, and the lack of Classic mode look and feel. Looks like I will looking into LINUX now, from what I seen in screen shots, looks like my kind of arrangements.

For short term, I would like to have a multi-boot system or using the virtual boxes. The Mac OS is not (that I know) supported on virtual machines, but I have seen Mac's partitioned to multi-boot Mac OS, LINUX, and Windows.

Potential Candidate:
http://www.pcconnectionexpress.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=11675901&cac=BrandsItem

http://service.pcconnection.com/images/inhouse/11675901.jpg

Has anyone here done this?

[KC2UGV]

That's actually surprising (That you hated Win 7). Win 7 was the first time I reconsidered going back to Windows. It actually ran better on my Netbook than XP, especially when I used one of the SD slots as "RAM Booster".

[kf0rt]

Just some random comments...

From everything I can tell, that particular Mac Mini lacks an optical drive. :wtf: Plan on spending another $50-$70 for a decent dual-layer external DVD drive.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/specs.html

My impression is that unless you're really hooked on OSX or Apple hardware for one reason or another, it's an expensive way to go. You can build a very competent PC with about the same specs for a lot less. Although it violates Apple's licensing, there are a lot of folks who are now running OSX on PC's.

Seems to me that the current version of OSX is a whole lot more like Windows 7 than Windows XP. Curious why you're interested in OSX, Paul.

The Mac Mini is a pretty sweet little box, though. They sure cram a lot of stuff in not much space. I've had a low-end Mac Mini since late last year (doesn't get used a lot) -- got it set up through a pair of IOGear KVM switches so I can switch my dual-monitor setup between the PC and the Mac.

Oh, and I LOVE Win 7. :lol:

[WØTKX]

Windows 7 has impressed me so far, was using it at work 6 months ago. Direct X 11 provides impressive eye candy. I've gotten quite spoiled with the improvements in the command line interface which started with Vista. But Vista wasn't worth the upgrade, except for the Media Center stuff.

Since a lot of the dissatisfaction is the interface "look and feel"... this may work for you:

Go Retro: Get XP Themes for Windows 7 (http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Go-Retro-Get-XP-Themes-for-Windows-7/)

http://on10.net/Link/c013efd7-b3ea-40d0-95d5-13094fb8f932/?default=content


Remember Royale Blue, Luna, Luna Silver and even the Zune XP desktop themes? Those feeling nostalgic for XP’s old-school looks may be interested to know that all of these have been ported, unofficially of course, to the Windows 7 platform. Over on the independent design community DeviantArt (http://deviantart.com/), a user by the name of “Satukoro” has been hard at work delivering versions of these themes to Windows 7 in both Aero and Basic formats.


P.S.

I :heart: Windows 7 too! :soapbox:


:rofl:

[KJ3N]

I'm waiting on another 6GB of RAM before I investigate Win 7. I'm going to try and make it behave in a multi-boot situation with eCS 2.0 (http://ecomstation.com/) and either Ubuntu, or Mandriva (http://www2.mandriva.com/).

[W4GPL]

I'm waiting on another 6GB of RAM before I investigate Win 7. I'm going to try and make it behave in a multi-boot situation with eCS 2.0 (http://ecomstation.com/) and either Ubuntu, or Mandriva (http://www2.mandriva.com/).Mandriva? Are you sick in the head? :)

[ka8ncr]

I think Microsoft has a winner with Windows 7. I only occasionally use it, but I like it.

[KJ3N]

Mandriva? Are you sick in the head? :)

When Ubuntu stops giving me a hard time with the OS/2 Boot Manager, I'll use it. Until then.... :disagree:

[n2ize]

I'll stick with Fedora.. aside from the fact that once you install the latest version its time to upgrade to the next version.

[N1LAF]

What do you think?
http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html

Now, imagine running Mac, LINUX, Windows XP, with Windows98SE using virtualbox? There is help/discussion on the net for triple boot... anyone try it?

[WØTKX]

Been using Partition Commander for a few years... I've run 4 different OS's on one box with it. Boots to a menu, pick your poison.

You could get freaky with NComputing, if you want to. http://www.ncomputing.com/Products/ProductOverview.aspx

[n6hcm]

What do you think?
http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html

Now, imagine running Mac, LINUX, Windows XP, with Windows98SE using virtualbox? There is help/discussion on the net for triple boot... anyone try it?

running them all simultaneously? performance may end up sucking ass--throughput to/from the disk isn't going to be great. not sure why someone would need all those at once. they do support up to 8gb, which is nice ... and it looks like you can finally upgrade RAM without resorting to the use of a putty knife.

also: windows 98? really? it's 2010.

i'd give up linux and win98 and just run winxp on a vm (virtualbox is probably the most economical from the system standpoint--the other vm kit out there has yummy user interface goodness and you pay for it wrt resource usage). win7 would be even better, but i think you said somewhere else that you didn't like win7 ...

[NQ6U]

I have seen Mac's partitioned to multi-boot Mac OS, LINUX, and Windows.
x
Has anyone here done this?

Yes. I am writing this while running Ubuntu on a MacBook Pro, which is set up to dual boot OS X and Linux--works great. I once had it set up to run XP as well, but I moved my copy of Windows to a desktop machine in the radio shack. That also ran well dual booting on the Mac. At least, as well as Windows ever does, anyhow; I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of the stuff that comes out of Redmond, WA.

Using Apple's BootCamp Assistant app makes it a piece of cake to add or remove a partition at any time, although I recommend a complete backup beforehand just for safety's sake.

[NQ6U]

From everything I can tell, that particular Mac Mini lacks an optical drive. :wtf

That photo is of a Mac Mini Server. Apple left the optical drive out so they could include a second HDD. The regular (non-Server) Mini comes with a CD/DVD-R drive like every other Mac.

I have a first-generation Mac Mini, the Mini G4. It's been running pretty much 24/7 for the last five years without a hitch. Great little machine.

[kf0rt]

That photo is of a Mac Mini Server. Apple left the optical drive out so they could include a second HDD. The regular (non-Server) Mini comes with a CD/DVD-R drive like every other Mac.

I have a first-generation Mac Mini, the Mini G4. It's been running pretty much 24/7 for the last five years without a hitch. Great little machine.

Yeah, seems like it'd make more sense to keep the optical drive internal and build more disk space externally if needed... In the bizarre world of Apple marketing, "let's make the server version smaller than the regular version?" I guess you could put the server version of the OS on a regular Mac Mini, though.

I've got a Mini G4 too; been meaning to put it on eBay for some time now. Great little box, but it won't run the iPhone SDK.

[WØTKX]

I may get a Mac here someday soon, was thinking about a laptop, but for the sweet deal on the HP.
Getting an iPhone for a company leash Real Soon Now.

[N2CHX]

Windows 7 came with this litter Acer Aspire One netbook I'm on. I actually like it. My other Aspire One (I have two) came with Vista Basic and it sucked. I immediately replaced it with Ubuntu. I may make this Netbook dual-boot but I use it for work and right now the MLS system won't let you use ANYTHING but true-blue Internet Explorer with some fancy plug-ins that won't run on Linux no matter what you try.

[NQ6U]

Yeah, seems like it'd make more sense to keep the optical drive internal and build more disk space externally if needed... In the bizarre world of Apple marketing, "let's make the server version smaller than the regular version?" I guess you could put the server version of the OS on a regular Mac Mini, though.

I've got a Mini G4 too; been meaning to put it on eBay for some time now. Great little box, but it won't run the iPhone SDK.

No, both the server and regular versions use pretty much the same sized cases, which is why Apple left the optical drive out. You could install OS X Server on a regular Mini but if you don't already own one fast enough to run it, it's actually cheaper to buy the Mini Server for $1000 and add an external optical drive if you need one. With Apple's pricing, it's almost like you are buying OS X Server and getting the hardware free.

Agreed that the Mini is a fine little machine--very reliable and nearly silent. I used mine as my primary computer until I bought this laptop, then retired it to duty as an headless iTunes player connected to the stereo system where it's run continuously for years without so much as a hiccup.

[NQ6U]

right now the MLS system won't let you use ANYTHING but true-blue Internet Explorer with some fancy plug-ins that won't run on Linux no matter what you try.

Man, I hate those browser-specific sites. I recently tried to apply for a job on one that required IE 6, which I happily eliminated from my XP machine as soon as a stable version of Firefox arrived a number of years ago. I wouldn't even know where to find a copy anymore.

If I needed one more reason to actively dislike Microsoft, their attempt to co-opt Web standards with their own proprietary browser add-ons would have been enough.

[KC2UGV]

Man, I hate those browser-specific sites. I recently tried to apply for a job on one that required IE 6, which I happily eliminated from my XP machine as soon as a stable version of Firefox arrived a number of years ago. I wouldn't even know where to find a copy anymore.

If I needed one more reason to actively dislike Microsoft, their attempt to co-opt Web standards with their own proprietary browser add-ons would have been enough.

TBH, it's not always MicroSerf. Some organization write their little plugins specifically for IE 5 (Not kidding), or 6. Makes a heck of a time even upgrading IE browsers sometimes.

[WØTKX]

We run IE and Firefox as the "standard" at work. Mixed "shop", lots of Linux machines running imaging networked to Windows 8 servers.

So some tools look like crap in one browser or the other, or just won't work. This frustrates the MS oriented IT dudes. The O/S wars rage on. :lol:

[NQ6U]

This frustrates the MS oriented IT dudes. The O/S wars rage on. :lol:

It's not even a matter of OS wars anymore; MS has already won that battle. It's a matter of sticking to Web standards rather than trying to write you own proprietary HTML (or CSS or whatever) extensions that only work with the browser you just happen to include with your OS. That's where I have to take issue with MS.

To be fair, Microsoft is moving away from that sort of thing now but it's going to take a while to undo the damage they've done.

[N1LAF]

Logging more experience with Windows 7 now, and I am not enthused with Windows 7. Many irritating and missing functions. On my XP systems, click on start, and I have many folders to select from that are groupings of short cuts for my programs. I can sorta do the same thing, but takes more effort.

Icons in the task bar are WAY, WAY too wide, even with small icon selected. No way to change this. On XP, my quicklinks (task bar) have small icons loaded side by side, tightly, my preference. Not in Windows 7.

Already crashed Windows 7 twice today.

Lots of programs refuse to work on this system - probably more to do with the 64 bit architecture than OS, but will be testing this further..

I have a decent computer to work with, dual Quad core Xeon processors with 24 GB of memory on a 64bit system and 64 bit Windows 7.

Windows 7 is pretty, but I find XP more functional. The result is - LINUX is looking better today.

[N1LAF]

Update - programs that refused to run on a 64 bit machine, will run on a 32 bit machine. I have seen similar problems with Win XP 64 bit.

[PA5COR]

Laptop dual boot XP=Pro/W7

Must say i was pleasantly surprised how well W7 works.
This Acer lappy has just 2 Gig Ram... though it is certified for W7.

Time to add another 2 gig ram.

[N1LAF]

Update - programs that refused to run on a 64 bit machine, will run on a 32 bit machine. I have seen similar problems with Win XP 64 bit.

New update: programs that refused to run on a 64 bit Xeon machine will run on an i5 64 bit processor on 64 bit Windows 7 system.

Seems like there is a compatibility problem with 64bit Xeon processors

[ka8ncr]

I was leaning more toward liking Windows 7, since all my school work ends up being done with it in labs (why, I don't know -- Visual Studio burps frequently despite the service packs). But this past week has me pissed off at Microsoft.

The family went on vacation and our last day and a half was spent at a hotel without wifi. So, I told my son that if he could create an ad hoc network, I could tether my iPhone and he could get on the internet that way. Microsoft has disabled the ability to easily create this simple function in Windows 7 Starter Edition. I mean, c'mon.

[W4GPL]

It's not as if Microsoft lied to about the features they offer in their various Windows 7 tiers. You had the information about the product in advance.

[KC2UGV]

It's not as if Microsoft lied to about the features they offer in their various Windows 7 tiers. You had the information about the product in advance.

Yeah, just take features present in last year's Ubuntu version :lol:

[n2ize]

It's not even a matter of OS wars anymore; MS has already won that battle. It's a matter of sticking to Web standards rather than trying to write you own proprietary HTML (or CSS or whatever) extensions that only work with the browser you just happen to include with your OS. That's where I have to take issue with MS.

To be fair, Microsoft is moving away from that sort of thing now but it's going to take a while to undo the damage they've done.

Yeah, I occasionally still run into Microsoft friendly sites that only like to see M$ software and proprietary media. Fortunately they are slowly becoming far and few between but, they are still out there and when i run across one it's like taking a trip in time back to the 1990''s.

[WØTKX]

http://www.fakesteve.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-1.png

http://www.fakesteve.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Detail-of-Tongue1.png

[ka8ncr]

It's not as if Microsoft lied to about the features they offer in their various Windows 7 tiers. You had the information about the product in advance.

Ever been to their site that compares features? Try to find where that's mentioned. And one would think "wireless" wouldn't have an asterisk next to it denoting half the feature set has been disabled. This isn't 2001.

Fortunately, the story has a happy ending. Microsoft can't seem to really get anything right; typing "adhoc" on start->run finds the necessary wizard.

[N1LAF]

I have not determined that Windows 7 is a vast improvement over XP. XP wasn't a vast improvement over Windows 98SE until after service pack 1A. I have Windows operating systems from Windows 286, stayed with Win3.11 wfw until Windows 98, then jumped to XP SP1A. I also have experience with Win NT 3.5.1, 4, and 2K. I have put my own systems together from pieces bought from computer fairs. I still have a 486 running, first of the VESA local buses.

Today, I don't have the time to spend on computers as I have in the past, so Linux has always been on the back burner, and Macs, well I could never find specific files, such as simple bookmarks, but that was pre OS-X days.

XP very rarely crashes on anything, more noticeable on shut down on non-responsive Microsoft products. Other than those very rare occasions, XP is solid.

I do not appreciate Windows 7, designed for the dumb user. I rather organize my own file folders thank you, and do not like the new Start menu. I like the small icons on my quick launch bar, not the bloated spaces in Windows 7. Windows 7 has so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies it is not settling, to the point I don't know what I get. Programs that Windows 7 run on some machines, will not run on others. No Windows Classics option - Microsoft way or too bad...

The conclusion I am coming to is that Windows 7 is really Vista 2.0. No sir, I do not like Windows 7 very much

[N1LAF]

This woman is trying to tell you how to prepare for Windows 7...

Easy for someone who has a Mac...
(Take your eyes off of her for one moment and notice what computer she has...)

[NQ6U]

This woman is trying to tell you how to prepare for Windows 7...

You left out the link!

[N1LAF]

Guy vents about his experience on Windows 7...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_xDOO8ZJjU

[w6tmi]

Guy vents about his experience on Windows 7...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_xDOO8ZJjU

Aww, I thought that was going to be funny...

That was NOT a vent. A vent has more.... Well venting. Moar rage..

[N1LAF]

You left out the link!

I was distracted... here it is...

This woman is trying to tell you how to prepare for Windows 7...

Easy for someone who has a Mac...
(Take your eyes off of her for one moment and notice what computer she has...)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnstpU1Qus

[kf0rt]

It's far easier to run Windows on a Mac than OSX on a PC. ;)

Actually, there are folks who buy Macs just to run Windows (because of the "superior" hardware). :roll:

[KC2UGV]

Man, I guess I hadn't used Win 7 long enough. I found it to be quick, stable, and (Once you turn it to look like Win2K), easy enough to use. Starting to think twice about it.

[N1LAF]

Man, I guess I hadn't used Win 7 long enough. I found it to be quick, stable, and (Once you turn it to look like Win2K), easy enough to use. Starting to think twice about it.

It's not, it removes features, and forces you to do things their way...
- Gone are the custom menus/folders from the Start button.
- Gone are the space efficient icons in the quick launch bar, now you have space consuming icons in quick launch, and limited to so many icons you can have.
- Compatibility remains top problem, both hardware and software
- It is really Vista 2.0, trying to take Apples' 5% market... A loser path. Apple a winner here.

[NQ6U]

(Take your eyes off of her for one moment and notice what computer she has...)

Huh? She has a computer?

[W3WN]

< snip >The conclusion I am coming to is that Windows 7 is really Vista 2.0. No sir, I do not like Windows 7 very muchAnd you should, because it is.

Windows 2000 is really Windows 5.0
XP is really Windows 5.5
Vista is really Windows 6.0
Windows 7 was Vista 2.0 and is really Windows 6.5

[W3MIV]

If I needed one more reason to actively dislike Microsoft, their attempt to co-opt Web standards with their own proprietary browser add-ons would have been enough.

I have to confess some amusement that anyone who is a strong Apple fan would berate ANY other company about being too proprietary. :lol::lol::lol:

[NQ6U]

I have to confess some amusement that anyone who is a strong Apple fan would berate ANY other company about being too proprietary. :lol::lol::lol:

I can't defend Apple in that respect but they have, at least, limited that behavior to their own hardware. Microsoft, on the other hand, tried to turn the entire Internet into an MS-owned shop by ignoring HTML standards and substituting their own.

[KC2UGV]

I can't defend Apple in that respect but they have, at least, limited that behavior to their own hardware. Microsoft, on the other hand, tried to turn the entire Internet into an MS-owned shop by ignoring HTML standards and substituting their own.

The same could be said about Apple, when they decided to ignore the standard for DHCP clients for the iPad...

[NQ6U]

The same could be said about Apple, when they decided to ignore the standard for DHCP clients for the iPad...

According to Princeton (http://www.net.princeton.edu/announcements/ipad-iphoneos32-stops-renewing-lease-keeps-using-IP-address.html) University, that's a bug (that should have been fixed by now) not a deliberate decision to ignore a standard.

[KC2UGV]

According to Princeton (http://www.net.princeton.edu/announcements/ipad-iphoneos32-stops-renewing-lease-keeps-using-IP-address.html) University, that's a bug (that should have been fixed by now) not a deliberate decision to ignore a standard.

And, they replaced it with this:
http://www.net.princeton.edu/apple-ios/ios40-requests-DHCP-too-often.html

[NQ6U]

And, they replaced it with this:
http://www.net.princeton.edu/apple-ios/ios40-requests-DHCP-too-often.html

That's pretty ironic but it's still a bug, not a decision to ignore a Web standard in order to promote their own software, al a Microsoft's IE plug-ins.

[KC2UGV]

That's pretty ironic but it's still a bug, not a decision to ignore a Web standard in order to promote their own software, al a Microsoft's IE plug-ins.

Most people consider those to be "bugs" in the CSS and render engines of IE. They just happen to be bugs that MS refuses to fix.

But, we can leave that, and move to the App store, where vendors supplying a competitor to Apple technology are locked out.

Or, we can move on to the lock out of Apple Hardware in general.

All proprietary.

[NQ6U]

Most people consider those to be "bugs" in the CSS and render engines of IE. They just happen to be bugs that MS refuses to fix.

I'm not talking about that stuff, I'm talking about the IE-only HTML tags that MS invented and Windows-only browser plug-ins. To their credit, they've backed away from that in the most recent version of IE.


But, we can leave that, and move to the App store, where vendors supplying a competitor to Apple technology are locked out.

Or, we can move on to the lock out of Apple Hardware in general.

All proprietary.

I never disputed any of that. I only brought up MS's attempt to co-opt the Web.

[kf0rt]

Or, we can move on to the lock out of Apple Hardware in general.

All proprietary.

Which is a shame. I'd be more interested in developing for the iPhone / Touch if they'd document the serial port (which we all know exists).

[N1LAF]

... I only brought up MS's attempt to co-opt the Web.

What else is new? They try to steal control from Java, calling it J++. They got smacked down...

[N1LAF]

I have been working OS-X for a little bit, and it is somewhat familiar in so many respects... The interface is similar to that of Windows 7 (dumb user), the menu selection has a Windows 3.11 look and feel, and the file structure is similar to Linux. What a mixed bag.

[NQ6U]

I have been working OS-X for a little bit, and it is somewhat familiar in so many respects... The interface is similar to that of Windows 7 (dumb user), the menu selection has a Windows 3.11 look and feel, and the file structure is similar to Linux. What a mixed bag.

Nice thing about OS X, though, is you can dump the GUI, open up a terminal window and go CLI if you prefer. I find it's faster for some batch operations.

[n6hcm]

Nice thing about OS X, though, is you can dump the GUI, open up a terminal window and go CLI if you prefer. I find it's faster for some batch operations.

this. the shell (i prefer csh or tcsh, but bash works just fine) is your friend.

[N1LAF]

Windows 7 needs a lot of work to be usable, and the third party efforts are showing Microsoft how to do it.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
Classic Windows Start menu (selectable to Win 7 on demand..., so you don't lose anything)
Return of the right click options in Windows Explorer.

I Installed it, does what I wanted for Windows 7 start menu, and the right click options in Explorer a bonus. Now, if Windows Explorer 7 repair can be completed...

Has my attention....

[N1LAF]

More on Classic Shell...

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/features.html

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/images/screenshot.png
Does not disable the original start menu in Windows. You can access it by Shift+Click on the start button


Gallery of features: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/gallery.html

[W4GPL]

You are one odd duck..

[N1LAF]

You are one odd duck..

Why?

I like to group my programs, and get to them quickly, not hunt for them. I use the Program Groups from the Start Menu extensively, a feature left out of Windows 7.

I also use the right click options very often, from starting new files or folders to sending files to applications. I find the user interface in Win7 lacking, geared to the dumb user.



You know, the world doesn't revolve around your preferences, your views, and just because someone has a different preference doesn't make them odd.

[kf0rt]

If I spent as much effort as you making the future look like the past... Hmmm. Guess that'd make me a modern conservative. :rofl:

[N1LAF]

If I spent as much effort as you making the future look like the past... Hmmm. Guess that'd make me a modern conservative. :rofl:

Actually, my brother called me yesterday, being that it was my birthday, got into a discussion about Windows 7, I remarked about the user interface, and he told me to check out 'Classic Shell'. Took only three minutes to find, download, and install, set settings to get what I was looking for.

I do LabVIEW application development. Products that I work on have a 10 year life cycle of support, so support of older versions of software is important. Just think, support for Win98 ended last year. Fortunately, the application software developed in Win XP also ran on Win98. I have one trouble area to overcome before I can start migration to Win 7, until then, I am stuck with Win XP, which is not horrible. Most corporations are still using Win XP.

[KB3LAZ]

Win7 isnt that bad IMO least wise compared to vista. But what I really hate is Windows server 08 enterprise edition. >< Ofc it is not near as bad as the web based editions but still. Its funny I have to run a lot of Linux based programs on my windows system because one of the particular games I host my server always tells me to piss off when I try to run a linux based system yet calls for linux based programs..grrrr Furthermore I really hate MSSQL! Though I still cant get appache to function correctly for my webserver and I hate IIS.

/rant