View Full Version : They All Sound About The Same
KG4CGC
05-18-2010, 07:20 AM
Last night while listening to 75m, I heard some OT's with some mid to high end radios. Mainly an Icom IC-756 with an iCM mic for Icom and an FT-9000 with I believe what was a PR-20. They didn't sound all that special on the air. Matter of fact, they sounded average with the 756 op having a slightly better tone.
Then a guy chimed in with a TS-2000 and it wasn't set up for ragchew and it sounded like crap. Didn't catch the mic. All were talking smack about the TS-570 and I know those can sound pretty sweet with the right setting and mic and nothing else.
Seriously, without having to do too much more than a hundred dollar mic, get on the air with a used TT and you will blow those $10K radios away. I have heard Art Bell's ESSB on the air. I'm not talking about using a soundboard and filter widths beyond 2.4 to 2.8. I hope the OT's really bought their rigs for superb receive and stuff. I think that out of that group last night, the guy on the 756 probably got the most bang for the buck while they were talking about audio.
To bad there were not any TT rigs on with them. :)
Cubic Astro 103 (w/ stock 2.7KHz B/W SSB TX filter) - $400
Cubic PSU-6A power supply - $125
Cubic 1500ZA 'Dayton Special' amp - $300
Cubic ST-2B 2kW tuner - $225
Shure 444 hi-Z mic - $60
Receiving many unsolicited reports which state that your audio is 'ESSB quality' and isn't splattering - priceless.
I've also done this with a Kenwood '940, TX/RX-chain SSB filters from a '930 (2.7 KHz B/W) and an MC-85.
You heard that rig on 40M last night. Describe the audio to us.
KG4CGC
05-18-2010, 07:37 AM
You heard that rig on 40M last night. Describe the audio to us.
On that rig even with noise and crashes and fading, you sound like a god! Deep lows that do not boom and articulated consonants with perfect vowels.
There was no noise here on 75 when the OT's were on.
KC2UGV
05-18-2010, 07:40 AM
AUDIOOOOO!!!! AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUDIOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
lol
How was their swing? Did any of them mention that lol
KG4CGC
05-18-2010, 07:46 AM
AUDIOOOOO!!!! AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUDIOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
lol
How was their swing? Did any of them mention that lol
That's an AM guys thing.
YES IT IS!
On that rig even with noise and crashes and fading, you sound like a god! Deep lows that do not boom and articulated consonants with perfect vowels.
There was no noise here on 75 when the OT's were on.
A good used '940 can be picked up for $700-800 and the TX filter can be scavenged from a number of places. I think it's still available from Kenwood; new price of $75-115. Figure another $100 (max) for an MC-85 and there ya go...
WØTKX
05-18-2010, 08:09 AM
Amazing how good SSB can sound.
My 570 sounded just as good or better that alot of em. No outboard box, No other crapola. It's sideband. If you want an FM sound. Go work at an FM station. If you tranmitt wider than 2.8 you wasting your time, and pissing off anyone near you. Theres a bunch down on 3.636 They call thereselves the wideband boys. Good place for them, And there not bothering anyone. Also the wide deep crap only works close in. On 75 or 160 you get out 1500 miles. You can't hear em. All you hear are mumbles.
You want to hear good SSB? Find someone with a properly working phasing sideband rig, such as an HT-37.
You want to hear good SSB? Find someone with a properly working phasing sideband rig, such as an HT-37.
One guy whom I worked on 20 with the Cubic stuff was running a -37 and favorably compared my audio with his.
Problems arise when the hi-fi crowd starts extending their TX passband below 150hz and above 3khz.
One guy whom I worked on 20 with the Cubic stuff was running a -37 and favorably compared my audio with his.
Problems arise when the hi-fi crowd starts extending their TX passband below 150hz and above 3khz.
That's the beauty of a phasing sideband transmitter.
With a filter sideband setup, you are literally filtering out one sideband or the other. It's easy to cut off any audio above 3000 Hz at the same time on the sideband you keep.
With a phasing sideband setup, you're taking one sideband (remember that the two sidebands are 180 degrees out of phase with each other) and changing it to be in phase with the other, then combining them. No filters, so no audio cutoff. Nothing is lost.
BTW, nice job on scoring the Astro.
One of these days, I will have an HT-37 & SX-101A or SX-111 again. Odds are though that I'll never find another S-108 as pristine and near mint as the one I had, but such is life.
WØTKX
05-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Never had any hassles, or caused any. I can, and will run 3.5-5.5 K wide when appropriate. I "default" to about 3K wide. There are too many idiots playing on eSSB without a way to measure what's happening, except a watt meter, and it's likely not to be a peak reading one. Use a scope to watch your modulation... use the simple sound card spectrum analyzers. Duh.
I also run at about 2k wide with the DX element. It just depends.
On 75 or 160 you get out 1500 miles.
If that's a general statement about those 2 bands, it's grossly incorrect. I have a few eQSLs (and paper QSLs) that will prove exactly how incorrect.
The extent to which I care about audio is whether or not you can understand me and there is no RF in it. Anything else is a waste of my time.
The extent to which I care about audio is whether or not you can understand me and there is no RF in it. Anything else is a waste of my time.
Then don't touch a thing. Your rig is set up "just right".
N4VGB
05-18-2010, 02:39 PM
Why enhance the audio of any SSB rig when the receiving end will most assuredly be listening through a filter much narrower than your signal, which always produces distortion products in the recovered audio??? There is no way around that little fact of physics.
That is the reason that most hardcore AMers prefer a non filtered receiver for AM reception with only the soft shaping of IFs or replace the old standard 6kc AM filter with one in the 8-10kc range.
You cannot push more signal bandwidth through the receiving ends set than it is setup to receive.
Then don't touch a thing. Your rig is set up "just right".
That's kinda the point. If I want to sound like a BC station, I'll get a BC license. No place for 4-6 Khz wide audio on SSB, IMHO.
You cannot push more signal bandwidth through the receiving ends set than it is setup to receive.
And since my SSB RX filter is usually set at about 2.5, you're wasting bandwidth being 4-6 Khz wide.
Why enhance the audio of any SSB rig when the receiving end will most assuredly be listening through a filter much narrower than your signal, which always produces distortion products in the recovered audio??? There is no way around that little fact of physics.
Most late-day transceivers allow one to select a variety of 'wide' filters when in receive.
I replaced the stock 2.4KHz B/W SSB filter in my '940's 1st IF with one that has a 6dB B/W of 2.7 KHz. That little extra bit of bandwidth is really noticeable, and I can tell you from experience that it makes a properly set-up SSB transmitter (such as Jim's) sound very nice.
Of course, I can crank the bandwidth down using the rig's Slope Tuning function a needed.
FWIW, the Drake R7's filter selection is done independently of selected mode. Scattered amongst the several I own are 4, 6 and 8KHz B/W 2nd-IF units; they'll bring out the full range of a so-called 'ESSB' signal.
Though I can mod the companion TR7s to transmit through a wider IF filter (the 4KHz unit is a common choice), I flatly refuse to do so. They sound good enough with the stock 2.3 KHz unit, owing to the skirt and shape-factor characteristics.
N4VGB
05-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Indeed, but there is no way around the basics of physics involved and even with a "soft" filter in place that is narrower than the received signal, you still get stuck with distortion products in the recovered audio output. Those may be low level and not noticed at times but they can be bad at times also.
Most of the AM guys have at least 3 standard audio modes: normal, war and DX.
WØTKX
05-18-2010, 03:03 PM
If everyone in the group is listening wide, it's all good. Run 6 khz wide on RX quite a lot, and slope/notch noisy neighbors.
I don't transmit wide unless it's 'going on".
1500 miles my butt. While it did not happen this winter for me, contacts with VK land and Pitcairn Island on 75m SSB were fun. 75/80 and 40 can be coast to coast a lot of nights. Just noisy, so good antennas and amps are very helpful. Next winter, I will have my loop repaired, as well as a vertical for the lower bands.
I replaced the stock 2.4KHz B/W SSB filter in my '940's 1st IF with one that has a 6dB B/W of 2.7 KHz. That little extra bit of bandwidth is really noticeable, and I can tell you from experience that it makes a properly set-up SSB transmitter (such as Jim's) sound very nice.
Part of that reason is that the K3 just happens to be using a 2.7 Khz TX filter. :giggity:
If that's a general statement about those 2 bands, it's grossly incorrect. I have a few eQSLs (and paper QSLs) that will prove exactly how incorrect.
When you get out a long ways, The deep sounding wide banders sound like mumbles. Thats all i'm saying. You get wider than 2.8, Which is what most of us recieve at. It's a waste of energy "signal". Thats all i'm saying here. Not distance.
Then don't touch a thing. Your rig is set up "just right".
Right ! We've been on a few times now. Pretty shure everyone can hear each other. Band dependent of corse.
kd8dey
05-18-2010, 05:25 PM
Got one(HT-37 with PTT Mod), the matching SX-111 & 111m1 r-46 & HA-1.
Now if i ever get around to getting a new pair of 6146's, build a T/R relay, make up the harness & put up an antenna before it all turns to rust in my basement.....
KG4CGC
05-18-2010, 05:31 PM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/2045632637_6dad3beabb.jpg
KG4CGC
05-21-2010, 01:00 AM
Somewhere I said that I haven't seen a Corsair VFO for sale but that they are out there.
Here's one with one bid on it and it's at $150. I'm not bidding on it. I'm just going to watch.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TEN-TEC-VFO-263-CORSAIR-/270581388331?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3effe8542b
Somewhere I said that I haven't seen a Corsair VFO for sale but that they are out there.
Here's one with one bid on it and it's at $150. I'm not bidding on it. I'm just going to watch.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TEN-TEC-VFO-263-CORSAIR-/270581388331?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3effe8542b
That's not the one you want, regardless.
Speaking of AMification...I'm looking into modding the '901's CAR/Mic Amp board to give a slightly wider AF response. If you're interested, when I'm done I'll let you know what needs to be changed. At this point it's mostly capacitors.
How's the AM recieve on it though Fred.
How's the AM recieve on it though Fred.
If using the stock 2.4 KHz SSB filter, it's tolerable. Only just. The optional 6KHz AM filter does a good job for amateur communications using AM but I would probably pick something else if I was going to do a lot of SWLing.
KG4CGC
05-21-2010, 11:20 AM
That's not the one you want, regardless.
Speaking of AMification...I'm looking into modding the '901's CAR/Mic Amp board to give a slightly wider AF response. If you're interested, when I'm done I'll let you know what needs to be changed. At this point it's mostly capacitors.
Interested but, could this easily go into the mud? The 901 doesn't need to be bassy as it is already a 2.7 kHz wide signal.
I think mine needs a little more response...the caps on that board are probably getting a bit long in the tooth.
Have another board which I can rapidly swap out and make "A/B comparisons" if need be.
KG4CGC
05-21-2010, 12:06 PM
I think mine needs a little more response...the caps on that board are probably getting a bit long in the tooth.
Didn't think about that.
Didn't think about that.
I re-capped the Rectifier A and C boards in your rig but didn't get into the rest. Once I get a good idea of what needs to be done with mine I'll pass along the info.
KB3LAZ
05-22-2010, 03:29 AM
I must say that my ProIII suites my needs just fine. Its all stock and I use a had mic. OFC I made a few adjustments via the menu with the "on board EQ" to make me sound more like me. On ssb my filter is set at 3.3.
KG4CGC
05-22-2010, 04:08 AM
Audio Unit PB1705
Is that the board I need to look at?
No - it's the "carrier" board.
There's a mod online somewhere. I'll pass it along...
I must say that my ProIII suites my needs just fine. Its all stock and I use a had mic. OFC I made a few adjustments via the menu with the "on board EQ" to make me sound more like me. On ssb my filter is set at 3.3.
All fine and good travis. But if you start getting RF on your audio the damn cheapo cords from ICOM and Heil are for sheit. There are fixes on the internet. There a grounding issue with the pro 3 and there all in the mic cord ground.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.