View Full Version : Macs are Girlie Computers
They are, and you know it. Takes a MAN to operate, upgrade, and troubleshoot a PC.
On the other hand, Macs are great if you like overpaying for hardware, or don't like a wide assortment of available software.
Not saying it's a "bad" platform, technically. I'd never say that. But the proprietary nature of the Mac is a two-edged sword. Sure, "everything works together." But you pay for the lack of competition that results from proprietary-everything. And because fewer people waste their money on Macs, fewer developers bother to write software for it.
But if you are a technology-imbecile with "more Dollars than sense," by all means go buy a Mac. You'll find it as easy to use as a Tinker Toy. And just as useful.
That's all for now. Let the PC Versus Mac Holy War begin!
Haw.
kc7jty
08-22-2007, 12:33 PM
Mac is Scotch right? Mc or Mick is Irish. I didn't know they made computers there. I must have a PC cause it's made by a guy named Dell. I think he was a farmer...or was that gateway?
Anyway the damn thing works although rather slow at times but that's my internet connection I believe.
I'm still happy as hell I didn't have to learn code to get on line. :roll:
kr4uq
08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
They are, and you know it. Takes a MAN to operate, upgrade, and troubleshoot a PC.
On the other hand, Macs are great if you like overpaying for hardware, or don't like a wide assortment of available software.
Not saying it's a "bad" platform, technically. I'd never say that. But the proprietary nature of the Mac is a two-edged sword. Sure, "everything works together." But you pay for the lack of competition that results from proprietary-everything. And because fewer people waste their money on Macs, fewer developers bother to write software for it.
But if you are a technology-imbecile with "more Dollars than sense," by all means go buy a Mac. You'll find it as easy to use as a Tinker Toy. And just as useful.
That's all for now. Let the PC Versus Mac Holy War begin!
Haw.
Oh boy - this one will be bloody! :twisted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg
in the last 15 years of my working life, being in and out of businesses across the USA and Canada, I saw ONE, UNO, "Mac shop" and that was a newspaper art department, the rest of the newpaper ran on PC/Intel.
M0GLO
08-22-2007, 01:13 PM
in the last 15 years of my working life, being in and out of businesses across the USA and Canada, I saw ONE, UNO, "Mac shop" and that was a newspaper art department, the rest of the newpaper ran on PC/Intel.
That goes for me as well.
Mac has a 4% share for a good reason, they cost too much and you don't get 1/10th of what a PC user gets in the long run.
But Mac heads are rabid and will ignore reality, primarily because nobody likes to admit they've been duped.
M0GLO
08-22-2007, 01:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOF6YZh2WaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NejhlUCL5Kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtS-Fyw ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtS-FywqQ4&mode=related&search=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVjpZtX ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVjpZtXGME&mode=related&search=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7VTTFMt9ik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAJDbV9Vfs
When Mac went Intel, a lot of the fanboys either went into denial or found some excuse as to why their platform was "superior."
It's hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOF6YZh2WaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NejhlUCL5Kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtS-Fyw ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtS-FywqQ4&mode=related&search=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVjpZtX ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVjpZtXGME&mode=related&search=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7VTTFMt9ik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAJDbV9Vfs
I'll block your entire subnet, you stupid lamers!
I am root!!! :lol: :lol:
kc2orw
08-22-2007, 01:42 PM
in the last 15 years of my working life, being in and out of businesses across the USA and Canada, I saw ONE, UNO, "Mac shop" and that was a newspaper art department, the rest of the newpaper ran on PC/Intel.
Well never ran across any 100% Mac shops but worked at Readers Digest and Consulted at Forbes Magazines. On both occasions I had the misfortune of getting to deal with the departments that used Mac's exclusively. There is a reason they call them Mac Whacks... too many of those people need to be on medication. One occasion one got mad, yeah not just angry, and she pushed her Mac off the desk because it was running slow. No they didn't take any action against her I guess they wanted her art skills? The other had to do with a publishing department expecting Office Macros to operate identically on a Mac as it did on a PC even though they were told in advance that it wasn't likely. They kept up their whining for a couple of weeks then they gave in and accepted an alternative that was offered to them weeks before. Gee... the alternative worked but nooooooo they wanted everything to be the same. I know some told them to get PC's since they mostly weren't using any Mac specific software, Mac Whaaaaaa cks!!!! :twisted:
Out of nowhere I heard that word.... Macintosh!!! Slowly I turned... step by step... inch by inch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slowly_I_Turned)
KF5ER
08-22-2007, 01:59 PM
Mac is Scotch right? Mc or Mick is Irish. I didn't know they made computers there. I must have a PC cause it's made by a guy named Dell. I think he was a farmer...or was that gateway?
Anyway the damn thing works although rather slow at times but that's my internet connection I believe.
I'm still happy as hell I didn't have to learn code to get on line. :roll:
A farmer named Dell! :D :D lmao :D :D
kf0rt
08-22-2007, 05:07 PM
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
My first computer was an Apple ][ -- way before the Mac. Had a 300 baud acoustic coupled modem for it. Helluva machine for it's time. That was 29 years ago.
M0GLO
08-22-2007, 05:23 PM
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
My first computer was an Apple ][ -- way before the Mac. Had a 300 baud acoustic coupled modem for it. Helluva machine for it's time. That was 29 years ago.
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
Apple ][e was a cool machine at the time, my bro had one and it's how I got into computers.
The original Mac was cool too (hideously slow but cool), until Windows was released. Then it was rapidly left in the dust.
That seems to be a recurring Apple theme, cool but slow as all hell and lacking in the software department.
Ultra stylish obsolescence, otherwise known as "The way of the Mac".
W4KLB
08-22-2007, 06:52 PM
:angry: hay what about TI :shock: how soon they forget :oops:
7 3
kr4uq
08-22-2007, 06:53 PM
I have a friend who loves Mac's.
He tried to get me to buy one for video editing. Said no thanks!
Guess what he does for a living?
Sells Dell's.
Nuf said.
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
Not really.
You are probably referring to the older macs which use PowerPC chips. That's no longer the case, my friend.
Since macs are now simply PC's with Jobs' DRM chip (so that only macs can run OS X) they run Windows natively. No emulator needed.
In fact, OS X now has Boot Camp which allows you to dual boot.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a mac though... :lol:
KU4MY
08-22-2007, 06:59 PM
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a mac though... :lol:
Not really, there are a lot of people out there with entirely too much money and need to waste it on expensive toys.
M0GLO
08-22-2007, 07:23 PM
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
Not really.
You are probably referring to the older macs which use PowerPC chips. That's no longer the case, my friend.
Since macs are now simply PC's with Jobs' DRM chip (so that only macs can run OS X) they run Windows natively. No emulator needed.
In fact, OS X now has Boot Camp which allows you to dual boot.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a mac though... :lol:
Yeah, why bother when you can get a custom overclocked AMD FX chipped monster with SLI 8800's and water cooling for less.
If you REALLY need to have that Unix coolness underneath dual boot either Linux or Solaris.
OS-X is just hype for an outdated interface with some 3d tossed in to wow em.
kc2orw
08-22-2007, 07:36 PM
:angry: hay what about TI :shock: how soon they forget :oops:
7 3
I recall them I had the Timex Sinclair pretty much useless I got a Commodore Vic 20 and eventually added the 32K expansion. I took a class in programming Basic on the Apple DOS, ran pretty well. The Apple had more memory then the VIC 20 I couldn't fit the basic program done on the Apple on the Commodore till I added the expansion. :lol:
A year or two later I got a Leading Edge XT Clone it didn't seem all that long and then I got a 386 clone thereafter. That was my first 16 bit Windows box :lol:
kf0rt
08-22-2007, 08:34 PM
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
Not really.
You are probably referring to the older macs which use PowerPC chips. That's no longer the case, my friend.
Since macs are now simply PC's with Jobs' DRM chip (so that only macs can run OS X) they run Windows natively. No emulator needed.
In fact, OS X now has Boot Camp which allows you to dual boot.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a mac though... :lol:
That's what I thought. With the Intel guts, it just takes a few device drivers to make the Mac run Windows as-is.
Tell ya what, tho... I used to write Windows bloatware for a living. A little over two years ago, I switched back to embedded programming. All my buds at work now have Dual-core widgets with dual LCD screens and when they ask for advice I can honestly say I've never run Vista. My "app" builds in about three seconds in an XP command window (about 70,000 lines of 80x88 assembly) and the environment is all my own, right down to the machine BIOS. Not a single line of "store bought" code. Outside of simple programs, I don't know how anyone can stand writing Windows programs.
M0GLO
08-22-2007, 08:49 PM
:angry: hay what about TI :shock: how soon they forget :oops:
7 3
Still got my 98.
:angry: hay what about TI :shock: how soon they forget :oops:
7 3
No way man. Pop bought me an SR 50 in high school ca 1974. Was like 300 bucks and that beetch screamed. No more trig tables for the kid. He could have bought cars for less that that.
Went to work for Novo in 1983 and we used SR52's I think for linear regression and calibrations with the little magnetic strip reader,docking station and thermal printer...High cotton.
I still have a TRS 80 and a Timex Sinclair.
Oh well...Stuff moves faster these days and I move slower.
Peek and Poke baby,
rot
OH WOW! The old SR50. I got one for Christmas 1974. I used it in my electronics classes and later FCC exams (2nd phone).
They were sold by Shillito's (Federated Department Stores) for $359.00 and later closed out in about 1978 for $19.95.
kr4uq
08-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a mac though... :lol:
Not really, there are a lot of people out there with entirely too much money and need to waste it on expensive toys.
But you must remember; he who dies with the most toys wins :twisted:
W2WTF
08-22-2007, 10:53 PM
..........
n6hcm
08-22-2007, 11:37 PM
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
you don't say which "emulator" you're talking about ... but it sounds kinda like virtual pc (at least by the performance profile, if not the operational profile) which isn't even supported on the apple intel platform. i've never used boot camp--that just seems stupid--but parallels (supporting linux, or vista, or any of several other intel platform os) runs just fine on an intel mac ... and it runs alongside my mac apps.
over a 20+ year career i've seen many mac shops, but not that many mac-only shops ... this makes sense--use the right tool for the right job.
best thing about the current macintosh platform? it's based on a sensible UNIX platform. :)
why i use macintosh? aside from what i just said, i have this job where i make other people's computers work all day long. when i come home i want to use something that actually works.
M0GLO
08-23-2007, 12:04 AM
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
Yeah, but they run Win VERY slooow in a buggy emulator that will make you want to reboot into OS-X just so you can get some work done. Can't have Redmond upstaging Job's now can we?
you don't say which "emulator" you're talking about ... but it sounds kinda like virtual pc (at least by the performance profile, if not the operational profile) which isn't even supported on the apple intel platform. i've never used boot camp--that just seems stupid--but parallels (supporting linux, or vista, or any of several other intel platform os) runs just fine on an intel mac ... and it runs alongside my mac apps.
over a 20+ year career i've seen many mac shops, but not that many mac-only shops ... this makes sense--use the right tool for the right job.
best thing about the current macintosh platform? it's based on a sensible UNIX platform. :)
why i use macintosh? aside from what i just said, i have this job where i make other people's computers work all day long. when i come home i want to use something that actually works.
That's the one, hideous, as was the performance of the PowerPC models.
And as I said earlier, for the price you could have the latest OC'd AMD Athlon FX chip watercooled with dual eVGA 8800 SLI, 8g of ram and a terabyte of storage on a top of the line Asus motherboard. Blow doors on ANY Mac Job's wants to toss at it.
Given the lack of software and the relatively lame hardware for the price what's to keep Mac alive? My guess is that so many graphic designers won't learn the new platforms even though they'd be better off in the long run. And the schools keep wasting our kids time with them as well of course.
I have an OC'd P4 3ghz at home running XP, rock solid with no crashes for over 3 years. I have no idea what people are talking about with their instability issues, every system I have ever owned requires minimal tweaking and runs beautifully until I upgrade. I've been doing this stuff for 20+ years as well, it's not like I'm new to the hardware.
Oh, and the upgrade? I don't need to buy ALL new software every OS release, unlike Apple forced it's users to do.
If you make peoples computers work all day long then it should be no sweat to take a couple of hours really setting up an Intel system that will do exactly what you describe: work. Then you'd have a couple of grand to spend on some new radio gear, eh?
Ya know, maybe I do bash around Mac.
If they made a better product for the cost I might cut them slack, but it's like paying FT-dx9000MP prices and getting an IC-756PROIII.
The Icom is a good rig, but it's not worth what I paid for it.
n6hcm
08-23-2007, 01:12 AM
And as I said earlier, for the price you could have the latest OC'd AMD Athlon FX chip watercooled with dual eVGA 8800 SLI, 8g of ram and a terabyte of storage on a top of the line Asus motherboard. Blow doors on ANY Mac Job's wants to toss at it.
i don't think folks buy mac for performance (although it can be had, of course). they buy mac because they're easy to use and because they have investment in the existing tools which they use on a regular basis.
Given the lack of software and the relatively lame hardware for the price what's to keep Mac alive?
what lack of software? there's plenty of macos x compatable software out there.
I have an OC'd P4 3ghz at home running XP, rock solid with no crashes for over 3 years. I have no idea what people are talking about with their instability issues, every system I have ever owned requires minimal tweaking and runs beautifully until I upgrade. I've been doing this stuff for 20+ years as well, it's not like I'm new to the hardware.
not everyone has a 20+ year technology veteran maintaining their home computing setup. most folks want to use their computer the way they use a wrench or a food processor--they don't want to have to spend too much time understanding how it works, choosing instead to spend the time getting stuff done.
Oh, and the upgrade? I don't need to buy ALL new software every OS release, unlike Apple forced it's users to do.
i've never had to do this. every time apple has made significant changes to their platform they've provided bridging technologies to ease the switch . . .
If you make peoples computers work all day long then it should be no sweat to take a couple of hours really setting up an Intel system that will do exactly what you describe: work. Then you'd have a couple of grand to spend on some new radio gear, eh?
that's the thing--i don't *want* to spend that time building a custom-built home computer. i don't need that kind of performance and i'm not interested in spending the time or energy to get it. i just spent time *reducing* the number of computers in my home rack ... and i already have plenty of money to spend on the radio gear i want.
kf0rt
08-23-2007, 06:04 AM
OH WOW! The old SR50. I got one for Christmas 1974. I used it in my electronics classes and later FCC exams (2nd phone).
They were sold by Shillito's (Federated Department Stores) for $359.00 and later closed out in about 1978 for $19.95.
Nobody here had an HP45?
N3ATS
08-23-2007, 05:28 PM
Limbaugh uses a Mac, right? Another reason not to buy a fruit machine.
in the last 15 years of my working life, being in and out of businesses across the USA and Canada, I saw ONE, UNO, "Mac shop" and that was a newspaper art department, the rest of the newpaper ran on PC/Intel.
The Dilbert cartoon depicts Mac users as artsy-fartsy guys with a goatee, a flowered shirt, and a beret.
On the other hand, it depicts Unix users as fat, old guys with long beards who wear undershirts and suspenders. Haw!
kc2orw
08-24-2007, 03:44 PM
Nothing wrong with Macs just some of the users are in desperate need of medication :lol:
kd6nig
08-25-2007, 12:44 PM
When I used to do tech support for internet involving mac users, I found many more people who thought they knew it all-much more than on the PC side.
You would ask them if they did things and it would be "BUT OF COURSE I DID, I'M A MAC USER AND THUS MORE ADVANCED THAN A PC USER!"
And then you would find out they didn't. I loved pointing this out to people, indirectly, of course, by checking other things and then checking what I asked them amongst that stuff, and it would turn out to be the problem.
You have to be creative sometimes. Blatently asking someone to check to see if a computer is plugged in usually offends them. Asking them to make sure the plug is properly seated, or asking them to change to a different outlet on the power strip (well, perhaps that plug wasn't seated entirely, or maybe that particular plug is bad....) would sometimes lead to the discovery "oh wait, it wasn't plugged in" and seemed to be less offensive. I remember doing this once while being monitored and cracking my supervisor up, but also earning praise because I did it in such a way the person didn't get offended.
I had to do this A LOT with mac users. You always had to almost trick them into doing things because they thought they knew it all. Honestly, its just a different architecture. But many of them were convinced it was a more advanced computer. Sure, you can do more "graphical" things with it, I suppose, but I guess people into that stuff think they are above others on a intellectual level because of it. You had to be really creative.
Oh, and when the iMac came out in all its purty colors and they were having internal 56k modem problems (and we had been warned by apple themselves!) trying to convince a Mac user that their computer had a defect.....dear lord. You would have been better trying to convince someone the sky was not blue but teal :)
It did help me gain an assistant supervisor position on the PC side though. Course, after accomplishing that and a nice payraise, we all got laid off 6 weeks later. Blah.
I almost got banned from another forum for saying that I think macs suck.
The forum is run by fanboys...
N1LAF
08-25-2007, 07:38 PM
I still have a working Commodore 64 computer.
Not bad.
Ours died in 1989 or so. I got a 128 from a friend later on (mid 90's) but that's in Trinidad. No sense in bringing it here.
I run emulators now when I want a c-64 fix.
Did you subscribe to any magazines back in the 80s? I was a very young pup then but my dad subbed to Compute! and Compute!'s Gazette. I hated typing in all of those long programs, but loved each and every one of them.
I learned a lot, but had some nasty habits to break, such as using line numbers in my BASIC programming classes in high school.
One of the apple dealers in manhattan uses old mac plus I think it is, hung up on the wall. They use it to display numbers for people to take a number and be served (for mac service).
n6hcm
08-26-2007, 02:21 AM
When I used to do tech support for internet involving mac users, I found many more people who thought they knew it all-much more than on the PC side.
yes, there's definitely a lot of that out there. they always forget that they're the one who called you for help ...
kr4uq
08-26-2007, 10:59 AM
When I used to do tech support for internet involving mac users, I found many more people who thought they knew it all-much more than on the PC side.
yes, there's definitely a lot of that out there. they always forget that they're the one who called you for help ...
Accepting that Mac's used to be "the thing" in education - would anyone venture a guess as to what percentage of Mac's are now used in school systems?
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
My first computer was an Apple ][ -- way before the Mac. Had a 300 baud acoustic coupled modem for it. Helluva machine for it's time. That was 29 years ago.
I still have my Apple ][ plus, a Bell and Howell black version. Runs fine. Also running is my Imsai 8080, but my Micropolis 315k hard-sectored drive is not booting properly. I used to run Micropolis OS and CPM.
kf0rt
09-05-2007, 07:31 AM
Since the change to Intel, Macs will run Windoze now, won't they? I know my son-in-law has a MacBook(?) and I don't think he touches Mac software -- he develops web apps; a lot of .NET stuff.
My first computer was an Apple ][ -- way before the Mac. Had a 300 baud acoustic coupled modem for it. Helluva machine for it's time. That was 29 years ago.
I still have my Apple ][ plus, a Bell and Howell black version. Runs fine. Also running is my Imsai 8080, but my Micropolis 315k hard-sectored drive is not booting properly. I used to run Micropolis OS and CPM.
Wow. You run a museum or something? :lol: I remember the Bell & Howell black versions. Sold my Apple ][ to a buddy in 1982 or so when my then-employer (Miniscribe) gave me an S-100 CP/M machine as a reward for getting it to play nice with one of their hard drives (my boss said it couldn't be done). His house was broken into and the only thing the thief took was the Apple. We used to run a lot of TurboDOS -- CP/M clone, but it came with the source code so you could customize it. Imsai? Geez... you have been at this awhile.
Edit:
Speaking of old computers... Do you remember the Digital Group stuff? All designed by Dr. Robert Suding, WØLMD. I saw Dr. Suding at a hamfest here last year. He was in the parking lot giving satellite demonstrations with an HT and a hand-held yagi. I think they were trying to hit the "SuitSat" repeater. Still active and still doing new things. Here's his personal web site: http://www.ultimatecharger.com/
Geez... you have been at this awhile.
I am a dusty fossil and belong in a museum.
Edit:
Speaking of old computers... Do you remember the Digital Group stuff?
We ran Digital Group stuff into the late-90s at Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk, but I didn't work on any of it beyond connectivity.
I still have a working Commodore 64 computer.
I used to run a BBS on a Commodore 64 when I was MUCH younger.....
K7KWH
I am planning to buy my daughter an iBook, but just haven't got to that yet.
n4aud
09-05-2007, 08:43 PM
I remember when a guy at the little liberal arts college I attended got a computer...late 70's or early 80's...it was a feature story in the campus newspaper. We had mainframe computers, but this little thing was something else.
The first computer I used was by modem. You'd sit at a terminal, either a printer terminal or a CRT, call up the mainframe on a dial telephone and wait for the screeching, then shove the receiver into the acoustic coupler. I got in trouble for playing Star Trek on the printer terminal and using all the paper...
We used "Plato" at the Defense Language Institute. It was supposed to be for language study, but we played "Airfight" with people in other places. That was the coolest thing to do with a computer I had seen up to that point, which would have been 1984. There is a Plato emulator online now, which I joined. They are looking for old Plato users.
My first computer was a Timex Sinclair, which I returned. I got a Commodore 64 later but gave it away with all the accessories I had in about 1995 or so. It still worked like a charm. My favorite game cartridge was "BC Quest for Tires."
M0GLO
09-05-2007, 10:08 PM
I am planning to buy my daughter an iBook, but just haven't got to that yet.
See, girlie computer!
I am planning to buy my daughter an iBook, but just haven't got to that yet.
See, girlie computer!
My Son is thinking of getting a Mac as well, and he has always built his own PCs. He wants the music-editing software that is available on the Mac.
The issue fo my daughter is the movie editing class she just started today. They have some Macs for the students and are using iMovie to start, and then will graduate to Final Cut Lite in a few weeks. Those programs are not available for the PC, and in fact, the software she needs to use pretty much all along for video editing will be Final Cut. The iBook can do everything else she needs, so it will be her own personal computer for the next few years. Remember that I always have 20-30 working computers that are my own property, and this will be the first Mac in the family.
n6hcm
09-06-2007, 01:55 AM
I am planning to buy my daughter an iBook, but just haven't got to that yet.
they don't make ibooks anymore ... sounds like you want a macbook.
make sure to buy through the apple store for education ... save yourself 10% or so on hardware.
(i'm an apple authorized business agent (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BizAgent?qprm=126559&agentID=AA070436&agentStoreName=%20Henare%20Systems) ... unfortunately, i can't get a better discount than what the education store does ... of course, if you know someone who works for apple, that'd be the best--the dscount they can share with non-employees is something like 20%).
n6hcm
09-06-2007, 02:01 AM
Remember that I always have 20-30 working computers that are my own property, and this will be the first Mac in the family.
i just got done emptying out my museum ... i have six in the house (not including stuff like PS3) ...
I am planning to buy my daughter an iBook, but just haven't got to that yet.
they don't make ibooks anymore ... sounds like you want a macbook.
make sure to buy through the apple store for education ... save yourself 10% or so on hardware.
(i'm an apple authorized business agent (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BizAgent?qprm=126559&agentID=AA070436&agentStoreName=%20Henare%20Systems) ... unfortunately, i can't get a better discount than what the education store does ... of course, if you know someone who works for apple, that'd be the best--the dscount they can share with non-employees is something like 20%).
Thanks for the tip. As you can see, my knowledge of those white computers is pretty sketchy. What do you think should be the minimum Macbook for movie editing?
kf0rt
09-06-2007, 05:37 AM
What do you think should be the minimum Macbook for movie editing?
More RAM. Faster CPU. Lotsa disk space. In that order. Movie editing pushes all three to the limit in general. Do they put DVD burners in those? I don't know squat about Macs, but anymore, the Macbook is just a glorified Wintel machine that runs MacOS, isn't it? Just checking some ads, they all seem to have Intel dual-core processors.
My son-in-law has a Macbook, but I think he keeps it in the Windoze mode.
M0GLO
09-06-2007, 07:28 AM
(i'm an apple authorized business agent (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BizAgent?qprm=126559&agentID=AA070436&agentStoreName=%20Henare%20Systems) ... unfortunately, i can't get a better discount than what the education store does ... of course, if you know someone who works for apple, that'd be the best--the dscount they can share with non-employees is something like 20%).
Ahh, and the disclosure!
So your opinion on this subject is unbiased. :lol:
Still a girlie box. ;)
What do you think should be the minimum Macbook for movie editing?
More RAM. Faster CPU. Lotsa disk space. In that order. Movie editing pushes all three to the limit in general. Do they put DVD burners in those? I don't know squat about Macs, but anymore, the Macbook is just a glorified Wintel machine that runs MacOS, isn't it? Just checking some ads, they all seem to have Intel dual-core processors.
My son-in-law has a Macbook, but I think he keeps it in the Windoze mode.
I am sorry to hear about your son-in-law. Both Mac and Windows? <<Shudder>> :shock: :shock:
Question: Can I substitute RAM/Hard drive with off the shelf components when using a MacBook? It will make quite a difference when I buy one, as the cheapest macbook is pretty close to the slightly more expensive models except for a little ram and hdd space. -- which Apple seems to expect way too much money for.
;)
Here is the newegg page on the macs: Macbooks at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=562&N=2153340562)
kf0rt
09-06-2007, 01:24 PM
What do you think should be the minimum Macbook for movie editing?
More RAM. Faster CPU. Lotsa disk space. In that order. Movie editing pushes all three to the limit in general. Do they put DVD burners in those? I don't know squat about Macs, but anymore, the Macbook is just a glorified Wintel machine that runs MacOS, isn't it? Just checking some ads, they all seem to have Intel dual-core processors.
My son-in-law has a Macbook, but I think he keeps it in the Windoze mode.
I am sorry to hear about your son-in-law. Both Mac and Windows? <<Shudder>> :shock: :shock:
I think just about everything he does is .NET under Windows. He works for a contractor that (among other things) maintains the web site for http://www.ksu.edu Dunno why he bought the Macbook except that it replaced a Toshiba I bought my daughter about 5 years ago that finally died.
n6hcm
09-07-2007, 02:32 AM
What do you think should be the minimum Macbook for movie editing?
More RAM. Faster CPU. Lotsa disk space. In that order.
that's pretty much it. the macbook supports up to 2GB (the default is 2x512MB, which kinda sucks ... ). buy larger sticks elsewhere--it'll be cheaper. http://www.dealram.com can help you find compatable ram at decent prices.
the macbook only gives you two cpu options: 2.0GHz and 2.16GHz (both chips are intel core 2 duo ... can we get any more twos in there?).
want more memory or faster processors in your configuration? you'll want a macbook pro (2.4GHz core 2 duo processors, up to 4GB RAM, faster hd options).
both system types come with a dual-layer DVD burner (these have been standard on the mac desktops for a while now).
look into the refurb equipment (under "special deals" in the left-hand nav bar) ... the refurb equipment has the standard warranty and is, in general, a good deal ... you'd be hard pressed to determine that refurbished systems were, in fact, refurbs. of the three mac systems in my home, two were purchased off the refurb shelf (the third, a mac mini in the kitchen, was purchased the day they were announced ... ). the refurb area of the apple store is restocked daily (sometimes several times/day) so if you don't see what you want then check back later in the day or next morning. also, you don't get to customize refurb systems at purchase time.
student mac purchases thru 16sep2007 can get a free ipod nano (see the apple store website for details). i kinda think the nano is useless, but it can be sold on fleabay ...
students may get better deals on software at the campus bookstore. shop around.
i always get applecare for portable equipment ... while applecare doesn't cover accidental damage, portable equipment still gets jostled around quite a bit and it's paid off nicely for me.
n6hcm
09-07-2007, 02:39 AM
Question: Can I substitute RAM/Hard drive with off the shelf components when using a MacBook?
yup. as long as you're comfortable opening the case you should be fine. it's generally a pretty tight fit inside apple's portable systems but newegg is ok--otherworld computing (http://www.macsales.com/) might be a better source for internal hds because they know which stuff works works better in mac equipment ... use owc to find out the possibilities and then find the right price wherever.
n6hcm
09-07-2007, 02:43 AM
Ahh, and the disclosure!
So your opinion on this subject is unbiased. :lol:
Still a girlie box. ;)
oh, totally. :) the AABA stuff doesn't pay my mortgage--it pays for toys. it was more important when i was consulting, but now that i'm a full-time wage slave again it's less important.
and i've been using mac since the beginning . . .
Question: Can I substitute RAM/Hard drive with off the shelf components when using a MacBook?
yup. as long as you're comfortable opening the case you should be fine. it's generally a pretty tight fit inside apple's portable systems but newegg is ok--otherworld computing (http://www.macsales.com/) might be a better source for internal hds because they know which stuff works works better in mac equipment ... use owc to find out the possibilities and then find the right price wherever.
Thanks for the awesome tips OM!
Well, she opened her new mac this evening and is pretty happy about it. She is supposed to use it for learning how to edit videos. I will provide an update on her experience as time goes on.
Good luck with the mac. I'm decidedly anti-mac for many reasons. The primary one is that my wife's ibook self destructed (overheated) when the auto-sleep-when-lid-is-closed function failed one day and it was just out of warranty. And the thing is practically hermetically sealed and a giant pain to service. Here's the giant PITA you'd have to do to change the HDD if you had what she had:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G ... ent/83/14/ (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G4-12-Inch/Hard-Drive-Replacement/83/14/)
So be careful about that - they don't have fans - at least hers didn't - and if they're on with the lid/screen down, they'll cook themselves to death.
That and the hinges for the lid/screen were horribly tight and squeaky ever since she got it.
Piece of overpriced junk.
But maybe they're more robust now... I hope!
It has a three year warrenty that I hope to never use but I will warn her about that Jason. The computer seems pretty slick.
The important thing is that kl1tx is rather pampered because grownups worked and sacrificed to provide her with that Mac, so she is expected to earn her computer by actually learning with it and acting like a grownup herself.
n6hcm
11-10-2007, 02:49 AM
Good luck with the mac. I'm decidedly anti-mac for many reasons. The primary one is that my wife's ibook self destructed (overheated) when the auto-sleep-when-lid-is-closed function failed one day and it was just out of warranty.
this can happen with pretty much any laptop (especially those which don't have internal fans). warm air is expelled through the keyboard--it's not enough to bother your hands but it is enough to cause damage if you close the cover and the system doesn't sleep or turn off.
notebooks which have internal fans could have this issue too (less likely, of course, but still possible).
if the system was just out of warranty i would have hit apple up for a repair ... especially if i was in a town which had an apple store--the "geniuses" aren't necessarily always savvy about computing--many of them spend most of their day futzing with ipods) but they can often make repairs happen that would otherwise be outside the policy.
even better--send a woman to the genius bar (the geniuses all seem to be guys in their twenties :>).
if the system was just out of warranty i would have hit apple up for a repair ... especially if i was in a town which had an apple store--the "geniuses" aren't necessarily always savvy about computing--many of them spend most of their day futzing with ipods) but they can often make repairs happen that would otherwise be outside the policy.
Your probably right that it could happen with any laptop, but it happened with the expensive laptop that people are always going on and on about how perfect it is. Tough to live up to those mac-fantasy expectations in the real world.
I remember taking a class in college that was taught on mac desktops and the teacher just _loved_ them. Sure, she had to reboot the computer at least twice every class session, but it was as automatic for her as blinking - those macs were perfect :roll: . If you'd talk to her about a PC, she'd complain that they crash all the time. Strange. Those macs crashed more than any PC I've owned. And certainly not "easier to use." Granted this was 10 years ago...
Anyway, we tried to get them to fix our laptop but they wanted a lot of money to do so. It was about 6 months out of a one year warranty. Maybe the XYL should have gone in by herself. :)
I also find it off-putting that the repair place is staffed with "geniuses" and they call it a "genius bar."
OH well. My beater Compaq Armada M700 (with a fan) that I got for free has been going strong for a few years now.
n6hcm
11-10-2007, 05:06 PM
Your probably right that it could happen with any laptop, but it happened with the expensive laptop that people are always going on and on about how perfect it is. Tough to live up to those mac-fantasy expectations in the real world.
so you had unrealistic expectations. it's a chunk of hardware. it's designed and manufactured by people (with a few robots along the way).
I remember taking a class in college that was taught on mac desktops and the teacher just _loved_ them. Sure, she had to reboot the computer at least twice every class session, but it was as automatic for her as blinking - those macs were perfect :roll: .
it's what she knew, and she was making lemonade with the lemons she had ...
Anyway, we tried to get them to fix our laptop but they wanted a lot of money to do so. It was about 6 months out of a one year warranty. Maybe the XYL should have gone in by herself. :)
well, six months isn't *just* outside the warranty period.
I also find it off-putting that the repair place is staffed with "geniuses" and they call it a "genius bar."
yah. i think that if you're going to have the stones to represent your service as "genius" then you should be able to back that up. i don't find them to be particularly "genius" but they can pull the levers to get whatever it is i need to have done. plus, there's the eye candy factor. i usually get the most experienced geniuses, but sometimes it takes a round with a less genius genius to get there.
M0GLO
11-10-2007, 05:47 PM
What you need is a SubGenius...
http://www.subgenius.com
so you had unrealistic expectations. it's a chunk of hardware. it's designed and manufactured by people (with a few robots along the way).
An expensive computer, running nothing but the software it came with, lasting more than 18 months, is not an unrealistic expectation. I don't care if it's a mac or a toshiba or whatever. If that's the premise Mac users operate under, they're being had. There are people/robots designing better, cheaper computers out there.
We had bad luck, no doubt. But that, combined with Apple's apparent philosophy of making it nearly impossible to repair their hardware on your own (replacing ipod batteries, as another example), make it very unappealing to me.
I suspect that the vast majority of mac users haven't had such severe problems and they're happy with what they've got. But I also know that they overlook problems to justify their sometimes irrational love for macs. My teacher was an example -- completely blind to the flaws she was constantly dealing with in her chosen platform, but also constantly bemoaning how "unstable" and "difficult" Intel machines are. It's funny. I've known other people with the same affliction, too.
well, six months isn't *just* outside the warranty period.
It is in my view. Every computer I've had has lasted several years without trouble. And if I needed a new HDD or some RAM, I changed it in 5 minutes with a couple tools. I don't expect a $1000 piece of supposedly high-end equipment to destroy itself -- ever -- at least not within a couple years.
I guess the fact that I'm typing this on a 6 year old machine skews my perceptions. 18 months should be a small fraction of the machine's lifetime in my view.
I didn't expect them to repair it for free, anyway. It was out of warranty. The distress comes from the fact that it destroyed itself when still relatively new.
I also find it off-putting that the repair place is staffed with "geniuses" and they call it a "genius bar."
yah. i think that if you're going to have the stones to represent your service as "genius" then you should be able to back that up. i don't find them to be particularly "genius" but they can pull the levers to get whatever it is i need to have done. plus, there's the eye candy factor. i usually get the most experienced geniuses, but sometimes it takes a round with a less genius genius to get there.
It's silly.
To each their own.
M0GLO
11-11-2007, 12:13 AM
I agree, I am using a 4 year old 3gig P4 that I overclocked 40% 3 years ago and it just runs.
I have had 1 HD go bad, and it went bad fast. Right after I bought it.
It's got the fastest video card made for AGP w/ 5 monitors, 4g of RAM and 1Tb of RAID 5 disk and the whole thing with monitors cost me under 2 grand.
There wasn't a Mac out thee that could touch my system until last year.
And more importantly, it just runs. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 a year.
If I had to replace the main box, it would cost me around $800 and would blow doors on any Mac out there again.
Mac users tend to be cultish about their chosen systems. I remember how hard they raked on Intel, cause we all know how superior Motorola was :roll: but now they are using Intel as well and lo and behold: Intel is a-OK now. Just so long as it has Mac branding.
Pretty funny if you ask me.
Sometimes you pay for what you get, most times you just pay too much.
And the "geniuses"? What a riot! If you are even moderately intelligent it takes no time at all to fry their little minds.
Putting on a shirt that says "genius" on it and working in a place called "The Genius Cafe" a genius does not make.
Good marketing though, even a moron gets to pretend he's a genius while buying that $450 locked iPhone that doesn't really have any software to run on it.
n6hcm
11-11-2007, 12:44 AM
Good marketing though, even a moron gets to pretend he's a genius while buying that $450 locked iPhone that doesn't really have any software to run on it.
the iPhone is a sad joke. in 2007 any phone which costs that much without subsidy and (a) can't be reasonably unlocked and (b) doesn't support high-speed networking is just a mess.
there are plenty of apps for the iphone (considering how "young" it is and considering that pretty much anything had to be developed without decent tools), and i'm sure there will be more now that they've actually released a dev kit for it.
M0GLO
11-11-2007, 02:04 AM
Good marketing though, even a moron gets to pretend he's a genius while buying that $450 locked iPhone that doesn't really have any software to run on it.
the iPhone is a sad joke. in 2007 any phone which costs that much without subsidy and (a) can't be reasonably unlocked and (b) doesn't support high-speed networking is just a mess.
there are plenty of apps for the iphone (considering how "young" it is and considering that pretty much anything had to be developed without decent tools), and i'm sure there will be more now that they've actually released a dev kit for it.
My thought exactly.
I just picked up an unlocked iPaq HW6945 for less than the iPhone.
I get unlocked 4 band GMRS, Edge, GPRS, WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS.
And a keyboard, can't forget the keyboard. :-D
And there are THOUSANDS of pieces of software out there for it since it runs Windows Mobile.
I also watch movies on it and listen to my mp3's.
And surf the net in cafes.
The iPhone is pretty, I'll give it that much (Apple has a good industrial design crew) but that's all I'll give it.
n6hcm
11-11-2007, 02:50 AM
I also watch movies on it and listen to my mp3's.
why does anyone want to watch a movie on that size screen? i can watch youtube stuff on my nokia n75 ... but why? what is so compelling that it can't wait until i can get to something people-sized?
M0GLO
11-11-2007, 02:05 PM
I also watch movies on it and listen to my mp3's.
why does anyone want to watch a movie on that size screen? i can watch youtube stuff on my nokia n75 ... but why? what is so compelling that it can't wait until i can get to something people-sized?
1.5 train hour commutes will do that to ya! :lol:
It's not fun, but it beats staring at the back of some dudes head for that long.
kf0rt
11-11-2007, 02:48 PM
Anyone check out the new Eee PC?
http://www.asus.com/999/images/products/1907/EeePC4G-4.jpg
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=0&l3=0&l4=0&model=1907&modelmenu=1
$399
M0GLO
11-11-2007, 03:23 PM
That's pretty cool, and it runs either Linux or Windows.
Small disk though, would have to hack that to a larger disk.
n6hcm
11-11-2007, 10:38 PM
very cool. they make USB-PCMCIA adaptors, and that could solve my data access requirement. don't know if they make SSD larger than 8GB, but that's just fine.
kf0rt
11-12-2007, 06:59 AM
16GB SD cards should be out real soon now. They'll cost more than the Eee at first, though.
A trash apple thread! :twisted:
Having just took one in to be repaired (under warranty) and seeing the receipt that declared the "super" drive cost $310, I can truly say that Apple stuff is over-hyped expensive POS. Oh, and the fact that I had to make an appointment to sit at the "Genius" bar just makes me barf.
kf6rdn
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
I also watch movies on it and listen to my mp3's.
why does anyone want to watch a movie on that size screen? i can watch youtube stuff on my nokia n75 ... but why? what is so compelling that it can't wait until i can get to something people-sized?
Because I CAN!
:P
What you need is a SubGenius...
http://www.subgenius.com
Praise Bob!
M0GLO
12-12-2007, 05:59 PM
What you need is a SubGenius...
http://www.subgenius.com
Praise Bob!
And don't forget to send your dollar! :lol:
KC9NRN
05-26-2008, 04:11 PM
They are, and you know it. Takes a MAN to operate, upgrade, and troubleshoot a PC.
On the other hand, Macs are great if you like overpaying for hardware, or don't like a wide assortment of available software.
Not saying it's a "bad" platform, technically. I'd never say that. But the proprietary nature of the Mac is a two-edged sword. Sure, "everything works together." But you pay for the lack of competition that results from proprietary-everything. And because fewer people waste their money on Macs, fewer developers bother to write software for it.
But if you are a technology-imbecile with "more Dollars than sense," by all means go buy a Mac. You'll find it as easy to use as a Tinker Toy. And just as useful.
That's all for now. Let the PC Versus Mac Holy War begin!
Haw.
I got into this one late. :mrgreen: I like them both but laugh at the MAC vs PC commercials. A few years ago, Apple had commercials about how they had the "fastest personal computer on the planet", that took balls considering it wasn't close to being true. Anyway, Jobs had some egg on his face when he declared they would switch to Intel and gave performance as one of the reasons. The MAC faithful was silent that day, but I digress, I like where MAC is now even though their commercials are stupid.
There are pros and cons to both, I bought a MacBook Air when it came out and run Leopard and Vista on it and get the benefit of both so no complaints. Fanboys will be fanboys and the MAC has the loudest fanboys I've ever heard, well maybe not, Obama's fanboys/girls come very close. :whistle
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