I'm thirsty (N2RJ's Beverage project)

[N2RJ]

So I want to put up a Beverage.

I have no idea where to start!

All I know is that for 80m I should put up approximately 500' of wire and terminate the end with a resistor.

Help!

[kc2orw]

Is that the old one or a new one? :lol:

[N9FE]

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[kc2orw]

Oh I thought maybe he was kidding... and aren't they supposed to be very directional?

[N9FE]

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[N2RJ]

ryan, you need alot of room for a beverage system, i mean alot, also very good tie off points, otherwise after every storm you'll be rehanging wires for a week, i'm not trying to dump on your parade by no means, but they are a hell of alot of work to keep up and running, kind of better suited for the retired among us, but keep researching, maybe it's do-able for you, yes a resistor, and a relay, theres alot of websites, W8JI.com is where i would start my friend,,,,

How much room?

I have 6 acres and lots of antenna supports (trees). The lot line is approximately 850' long. W8JI himself said that he doesn't make his 160m beverages more than 800' long anyway.

I don't mind the work. I am willing to put up with it.

Been to w8ji.com and I have been looking at the DX engineering boxes...

W8JI seems to be a bit fuzzy on details, however.

[kc2orw]

There were a few more links in the wiki entry on the topic "Beverage Antenna" maybe they will give you more info, if you haven't already done that. With six acres you should be able to put a few up

[N9FE]

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[N9FE]

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[N2RJ]

Okay here's the skinny.

I want to use them as receiving antennas, primarily for working europe/Africa, JA and South America on the low bands during contests.

I am not going to transmit through them at all.

I always see the "big gun" contest stations say they have beverages in their antenna farms for RX on the low bands. I've been reading ON4UN low band DXing as well.

I must admit that ON4UN's book has pretty much everything I need, but I want to know people's hands on experience.

[N9FE]

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[N2RJ]

Bump bumpity bump

Just finished stringing 480' of ladder line for a reversible Beverage. I'm going to eventually have 8 directions, 30/210, 60/240, 90/270, 120/300. Today I strung 60/240 which should give me EU and VK/ZL.

Also going to string a single Beverage due south.

That said, I never realized how pretty the woods on our property is. We have a small stream at the edge of it which is beautiful, and feeds into a larger stream with a few mini waterfalls.

I may phase another Beverage for EU because that's basically my QSO cash cow. I basically can spend an entire contest running EU non stop.

Next week I'm going to put the ground rods and termination as well as the feed. It's all 75 ohm TV coax so it's cheeeeeeap!

I'm also custom designing a BCD unit for control of my 8 direction Beverage array.

Will keep you guys posted.

[n4aud]

Please do keep us posted. I would like to do this as well, and do have the space for it.
What made you go with the 75 ohm coax? Cost?
I'm really intrigued by this. I can't put up your tower and beam, but I can do a beverage.

[N2RJ]

The DX Engineering Beverage transformers are made for use with 75 ohm coax.

Yes, cost is the issue. 1000' of RG6 is $120 and it makes little difference whether I use that or 50 ohm coax.

Remember this is a receive antenna, so signal attenuation has much less of an effect.

For my single Beverage I'm going to use galvanized wire from tractor supply (cheap). I'm wondering why not use that for all of them? Well I'll end up losing the reversed directions unless I make my own ladder line from it. A bit of a hassle so I'll just stick with 450 ohm ladder line.

If it's good enough for W8JI, it's good enough for me. :whistle

[N2RJ]

Put it on air about 20 mins ago.

All I can say is WOW.

I'll say it again... WOW.

Signals coming right out of the noise compared to my hustler 6BTV on 80 and the AM broadcast band (I don't hear a thing on 160, except local noise)

Right now just two directions (60 deg and 240 deg) but more to come. I plan to have one every 30, and phased towards Europe. Still got a lot of ladder line and 75 ohm coax left over.

I still haven't even grounded the darn thing properly yet, just on the remote end. My F/B is supposed to get better when I ground the feedpoint.

I'm going to take some pics tomorrow, and also put up a proper transmit antenna (inv vee). I'll also be listening tonight so I should have some audio files comparing f/b.

But so far, so good. A friend recommended a K9AY loop, but after reading about them on W8JI's website, the Beverage seemed a lot better.

Stay tuned...

[N2RJ]

Here's an audio file comparing f/b. Where you hear the clicks is me switching between front and back.

The station in NY, which is to the side of me isn't as dramatic as the guy in PA who is behind.

Audio link 1 (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/bev_fb1n2rj.mp3)

BTW the Beverage terminator and feedpoint is the DX Engineering RBS-1.

[N2RJ]

Another audio file - beverage vs inverted vee

Beverage vs Inverted Vee (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/bev_vs_inv_vee1.mp3)


The more noisy one is the vee.

[ad4mg]

I've always been sold on beverage antennas. W4MYA has a number of them at his contest station. I've run his 75/80 meter operating position, and used his switchable beverage setup. The ability to "steer" the receive on this band, plus the low noise level of a terminated beverage antenna is an incredible asset!

[N2RJ]

The noise level is definitely lower, but it's not like all of the noise goes away. But definitely it provides directivity and noise reduction.

Right now I'm on the net on 3828 and while others are struggling thru the static crashes, I hear 'em no problems.

[W3DUB]

This thread needs more pictures ;)

[N2RJ]

Yeah they're coming, probably this weekend or an evening this week I'll take some.

[KU0DM]

Wow, that's awesome! I'm jealous dude!
Did you get your 80m 4-square up yet? It'd be interesting to compare listening to signals on that vs. the beverage because a lot of material on the internet suggest a 4-square is hard to beat for receiving.

Can't wait to see those pictars you keep talking about. ;)

--Dunc

[N2RJ]

The 4sq is on hold for a bit. I have some other things to take care of, including putting the MonstIR back in the air.

[W3DUB]

Must of missed it, why is it down?

[N2RJ]

SteppIR has a known issue with their plastic gear shafts manufactured between 2006-2007.

They develop hairline cracks then break.

Two of mine broke. The other two developed hairline cracks. Therefore two of my elements could not move and the other two were on their way to failure.

I sent them back for repair under warranty and they were shipped back yesterday.

Prior to this they used to use fiberglass shafts (I have no idea why they changed).

IIRC they are replacing them with carbon fiber. I will see when I get mine.

So that's it in a nutshell.

The cost is incurred because I have to hire a crane to lift the 267lb antenna back up to the top of the tower. $600 a shot.

So I've been without my SteppIR for about a month now. Yes, it's killing me. So much good DX and the W2B special event and me without an antenna.

I've been operating out of friends' QTHs in the meantime, and using wire antennas and the hustler 6btv. It's not bad, but it's not great either.

[n4aud]

You're spoiled now Ryan! :mrgreen:

[N2RJ]

Yeah, right?

KC2OYY is spoiled as well. She's just not interested in the radio anymore... using the vertical is...so... meh.

The inverted vee is not bad though. I've been playing around on 80 with it.

[W3DUB]

Oh so you have to use a vertical.. I feel so... bad for you :D

So essentially is there a "recall" of sorts on the SteppIR? I would think from the way you describe it to me it should be... sounds that way.. you aren't paying for the replacement parts right?

[n4aud]

Another audio file - beverage vs inverted vee

Beverage vs Inverted Vee (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/bev_vs_inv_vee1.mp3)


The more noisy one is the vee.

Those are great comparisons. When I first put up a full wave loop I would switch between it and the dipole I had up and got similar results, less noise on the loop. Thanks for putting the sound files up.
I haven't had the time to mess with this, but hopefully I can get the supplies together and explore beverages in the near future. I don't know why I never tried them before.

[N9FE]

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[N2RJ]

Oh so you have to use a vertical.. I feel so... bad for you :D

The vertical, ground mounted is worse than the dipole on 20m from what I see.

On 40 it's a nice receive antenna, but on 20 it sucks, and I have lots of radials too.


So essentially is there a "recall" of sorts on the SteppIR? I would think from the way you describe it to me it should be... sounds that way.. you aren't paying for the replacement parts right?

There is no recall.

If you have problems they'll replace it. But they are not telling people take down their antennas and send back the elements if it's working.

It's more akin to a TSB, which means that if you have problems they know what it is and will fix it free of charge.

[N2RJ]

DX sound files:

Inverted Vee (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/ok3bjj_inv_vee.mp3)
Beverage (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/ok3bjj.mp3)

[N2RJ]

More DX sound files:

4L4WW 1 (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/4l4ww_compare_inv_vee.mp3)
4L4WW 2 (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/4l4ww_compare_inv_vee2.mp3)
9a1ww (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/9a1ww.mp3)

I periodically switched to the transmit antenna (inverted vee) for comparison.

[N2RJ]

OK1DIG on CW (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/ok1dig.mp3)

Okay now I'm officially jealous. I HAVE to put up my 4sqr to put out a signal like that!

[N2RJ]

Another one I worked tonight:

G4ATA (http://www.n2rj.com/audio/g4ata.mp3)

YOu can hear me switching to the xmit antenna (more noisy) but he had a nice solid signal.

I also worked VQ9LA on CW but didn't record an audio file. He was pretty strong here on the Beverage but almost buried in static on the inverted vee.

[W5GA]

Ryan, get yourself a copy of ON4UN's book. It has a whole section devoted to Beverages and other RX antennas.

Also, did you see the N0AX article in QST I guess about a year ago on reversible Beverages? Looked like a really neat setup.

One other thing...some time ago you mentioned the possibility of horses in your future. Horses and Beverages are mutually exclusive, they'll walk right through them. If you look at the photos on W8JI's site, you'll see his are mounted only about 5-6' high.

[N2RJ]

Ryan, get yourself a copy of ON4UN's book. It has a whole section devoted to Beverages and other RX antennas.

Yep, I got it. Excellent stuff. My friend 9Z4BM, Leon told me about it.


Also, did you see the N0AX article in QST I guess about a year ago on reversible Beverages? Looked like a really neat setup.

I have the W8JI design of the reversible Beverage. But yes, I did read it. Neat stuff. Some of what I want to do, I may have to stick with single wire, phased Beverages. This is towards Europe for contesting purposes.


One other thing...some time ago you mentioned the possibility of horses in your future. Horses and Beverages are mutually exclusive, they'll walk right through them. If you look at the photos on W8JI's site, you'll see his are mounted only about 5-6' high.

There's room for the horses and Beverages. The horses aren't going to be walking in the woods.

[W3DUB]

Where's the pictures damnit.... and jesus, what a difference (re: sound files)

[VK3ZL]

Ryan....

Let me know when you get properly set up on 160 meters....I have a daily contact with Tom W8JI on 1.824.5....We have been keeping this sked for 10 years with 99% success..It will be my pleasure to put you in my log book...I have worked many hundreds of US stations on Topband.... :) :)

Bob VK3ZL.....

160 meter CW DX rules....

[N2RJ]

Thanks. Over the next few weeks I'm doing some improvements. I'm going to have an inverted L up when the tree service comes to help me put back up my beam.

[WB2WIK]

Thanks. Over the next few weeks I'm doing some improvements. I'm going to have an inverted L up when the tree service comes to help me put back up my beam.

::Now, there's the problem, Ryan! Tree does not equal antenna. Well, in many cases it does equal support for antenna. :D

If you call Mike WA2VUN your antenna could be back up in one day, very professionally done. And if you do, tell him hi from me to him, his lovely XYL JoAn and his kids, all of whom I've known forever. Mike's a pro.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

[M0GLO]

I am officially jealous Ryan. :mrgreen: <-See, green even! :lol:

[KU0DM]

I has a question. :mrgreen:

Since the beverage is a receive antenna, how well would it perform if one was constructed for 160m and then used on 80m and 40m as well? Or if you want multiple bands, do you need to construct multiple beverages?

--Dunc

[K8WPJ]

Man,

hearing those clips is just making me want to get back on the air that much more...

Maybe once the new fence is up, I can use the old poles to rig something up, untill I can get the antenna installer back out here.

[N2RJ]

I has a question. :mrgreen:

Since the beverage is a receive antenna, how well would it perform if one was constructed for 160m and then used on 80m and 40m as well? Or if you want multiple bands, do you need to construct multiple beverages?

--Dunc

You can construct a Beverage and have it work on multiple bands. If it is too short, it doesn't do so well. If it is too long, it will also not work so well.

If you want optimum performance you need separate Beverages for 80 and 160. However, you can put up a 480' Beverage and it will be a compromise on 160. It will work, it just won't work as well as a longer one. You can put up an 800' Beverage and it will work well on 160 but it won't work that well on 80.

But the installation parameters are VERY forgiving as the Beverage is a lossy antenna.

[W5GA]

I has a question. :mrgreen:

Since the beverage is a receive antenna, how well would it perform if one was constructed for 160m and then used on 80m and 40m as well? Or if you want multiple bands, do you need to construct multiple beverages?

--Dunc

If you want one antenna to do 160 and 80, look at a K9AY loop. Does both bands by changing the termination resistance. Works on 40 also, but not as well as the lower bands. It will also be several db down from a Beverage, but head and shoulders above a low dipole or a vertical because of a much better SNR.

[KU0DM]

*bump*

Whatcha been up to Ryan?

*bump*

Whatcha been up to Ryan?
My first son, we named him Joshua Ryan. We had an Aunt Denna. She had nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. But she was a spinster and if you visited her, her eyes would beam. It wouldn't take much to coax a smile.

True story Dunc. Maybe Ryan will show up now with this new bump.

[N2RJ]

*bump*

Whatcha been up to Ryan?

Been enjoying my Beverage. Going to put up a couple more this summer. Seriously kicks butt on rx on 75. I can hear stations that are normally buried in the noise on the vee.