Who is your computer hero?

[N2RJ]

Jim Butterfield was mine.

The man was simply a Commodore genius.

He barely beats Wayne Green though.

Who's yours?

[KB3LAZ]

Jim Butterfield was mine.

The man was simply a Commodore genius.

He barely beats Wayne Green though.

Who's yours?

A computer hero? Man, I thought that I had too much time on my hands. :snicker:

[N2NH]

Murphy. Because he had the foresight to understand the inner workings of computers years before they became commonplace.

[KB3LAZ]

I can't go with the PC hero thing but....Yasumi Matsuno and Hiroyuki Ito among others for creating the world in which many of my dreams are based. :lol:

[n2ize]

Hmmmm.... I don't think I really have a "computer hero". Perhaps I could name some of the great mathematicians who's ideas , like cryptography, have been incorporated into the digital world.

Or, perhaps Charles Babage and his early prototype for a "computer", his "analytic engine". Perhaps Ada Lovelace who both promoted and wrote "software" for this early "computer"..

[WØTKX]

Hmmmm.... I don't think I really have a "computer hero". Perhaps I could name some of the great mathematicians who's ideas , like cryptography, have been incorporated into the digital world.

Or, perhaps Charles Babage and his early prototype for a "computer", his "analytic engine". Perhaps Ada Lovelace who both promoted and wrote "software" for this early "computer"..

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

http://www.cyberartsweb.org/cpace/scifi/cyberbib/Images/dif-eng.jpg

[KG4CGC]

Who is your computer hero?

Dick Hertz. Actually, the Chinese abacus.

[KC2RPP]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

[ad4mg]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.
Excellent! :agree:

[N2NH]

There's always the Greek mechanical (analog) computer, the Antikythera mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism) they found dating to about 2200 years ago. They believe it was used in astronomy and was quite complicated.

Now if anyone is a computer hero, that's got to be the guy.

[N2RJ]

All good so far. I made it vague on purpose. Computing of course overlaps with mathematics, electronics and other fields.

[N2KKM]

Tuxy.

[ae6ip]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

Has Linus ever indicated when he's going to get around to doing that? :lol:

[ae6ip]

I don't have computer heroes, but there are certainly people I highly respect and admire. Among those I've been fortunate enough to have worked with or studied under, Seymour Cray, Dennis Ritchie and Don Knuth are the most admirable. Of those influential in my own field, Edsgar Dijkstra and Sir Charles Anthony Ralston Hoare stand out in a field of giants. Of those I've heard speak but do not know, Admiral Grace Hooper, Adele Goldberg and Richard Hamming stand out the most.

[n2ize]

Long before man developed computers, and while he was still in his primal infancy, explorers from other galaxies and dimensions far more advanced than we will ever be visited the earth and gave us all we know today. Those alien visitors are the real hero's.

[n2ize]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

Has Linus ever indicated when he's going to get around to doing that? :lol:

Linux certainly is not a "really good OS". It is mediocre at best.

[KB3LAZ]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

Has Linus ever indicated when he's going to get around to doing that? :lol:

Linux certainly is not a "really good OS". It is mediocre at best.

It is great for some things at least in my limited experience. Then again windows and Mac are the same. A lot is going to depend on the users needs.

BTW..I have a 32 bit system and a 64 bit system. Isn't Linux still running on 16 bit?

I only have a limited understanding of the purpose behind the difference in systems. I do know that a 32 bit windows system is limited to using around 3gigs of memory and I believe that it can only utilize 800mhz of FSB. Which leads me to a question; are the MHz readings on a ram chip connected to the FSB or the cache? Example a 1gig chip with 667MHz.

Can someone break this down for me?

[N2NH]

Long before man developed computers, and while he was still in his primal infancy, explorers from other galaxies and dimensions far more advanced than we will ever be visited the earth and gave us all we know today. Those alien visitors are the real hero's.

So were talking Mork and Alf here?

[N2RJ]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

Has Linus ever indicated when he's going to get around to doing that? :lol:

Linux certainly is not a "really good OS". It is mediocre at best.

Linux is okay but you are somewhat right. My Linux systems crash far more frequently and are much less reliable than my Solaris 10 systems. I can pound the shit out of my Solaris systems and they will not bring the house down. Add a little too much load to Linux and they lock right up.

Linux gets a pass because it is free and runs on commodity hardware and is better than Windows. Otherwise it's not really the best thing if you want performance and stability.

[kf0rt]

Bill Gates, because he gave Linus Torvalds a really good reason to create a really good OS.

Has Linus ever indicated when he's going to get around to doing that? :lol:

Linux certainly is not a "really good OS". It is mediocre at best.

It is great for some things at least in my limited experience. Then again windows and Mac are the same. A lot is going to depend on the users needs.

BTW..I have a 32 bit system and a 64 bit system. Isn't Linux still running on 16 bit?

I only have a limited understanding of the purpose behind the difference in systems. I do know that a 32 bit windows system is limited to using around 3gigs of memory and I believe that it can only utilize 800mhz of FSB. Which leads me to a question; are the MHz readings on a ram chip connected to the FSB or the cache? Example a 1gig chip with 667MHz.

Can someone break this down for me?

Why would the OS be limited by memory speed?

The ~3GB limit on 32-bit Windows is due to addressability. 2^32 is 4GB. Subtract a bunch for memory mapped video and other memory mapped hardware, and there's your true limit.

[KB3LAZ]

Why would the OS be limited by memory speed?

The ~3GB limit on 32-bit Windows is due to addressability. 2^32 is 4GB. Subtract a bunch for memory mapped video and other memory mapped hardware, and there's your true limit.

IDK, that is why I asked. I only go by what the manual tells me. Computers are not my thing. Sure, I can design a website (even in html), install programs, download files, change out hardware, even manipulate aspects of the platform (if that is the right way to put it), but I am not a guru by any means.

So what is the function of the 32/64 bit thing? What is the MHz reading on the ram chip (not the Meg/gig), how does the FSB come into play (I know what it is and what it does but where does it fit in), what about the cache (again I know what it does, sorta)..etc...

Or is this something that I need to do in depth research on? I'm not too awful worried about it as my pc does what I want it to, I can fix it physically most of the time, debug it, etc..Just curious.

[ae6ip]

You want a good tutorial on PC hardware. When people talk about a system being 32 or 64 bit (Linux runs on both, and probably will no longer run on 16 bit), they're talking about how much memory the computer can address without playing funny games. 32 bits of address will uniquely address 4 gigabytes of memory. 64 gigabits will address 4 billion times that much memory. "64 bit" computers aren't really 64 bit. The central processor operates on 64 bits of address, but usually only a fraction of those are used to access ram. If a pc can handle a maximum of 32 gigabytes, then it only has a 36 bit address bus.

The Front Side Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front-side_bus) is pretty well described in wikipedia, and that should give you a starting point for understanding the hardware of modern PCs.

Windows has no performance limit for FSB frequency. Normally the limit of the FSB frequency is set by the chip set used on the mainboard, possibly further reduced by the frequency of the ram that is inserted in the board.

The ram frequency is given because, for complex manufacturing reasons, the faster ram runs the more expensive it is to make, so you waste money if you buy ram faster than your mainboard can handle.

[KF2M]

Seymour Cray - Daddy of "Big Iron"

[KB3LAZ]

You want a good tutorial on PC hardware. When people talk about a system being 32 or 64 bit (Linux runs on both, and probably will no longer run on 16 bit), they're talking about how much memory the computer can address without playing funny games. 32 bits of address will uniquely address 4 gigabytes of memory. 64 gigabits will address 4 billion times that much memory. "64 bit" computers aren't really 64 bit. The central processor operates on 64 bits of address, but usually only a fraction of those are used to access ram. If a pc can handle a maximum of 32 gigabytes, then it only has a 36 bit address bus.

The Front Side Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front-side_bus) is pretty well described in wikipedia, and that should give you a starting point for understanding the hardware of modern PCs.

Windows has no performance limit for FSB frequency. Normally the limit of the FSB frequency is set by the chip set used on the mainboard, possibly further reduced by the frequency of the ram that is inserted in the board.

The ram frequency is given because, for complex manufacturing reasons, the faster ram runs the more expensive it is to make, so you waste money if you buy ram faster than your mainboard can handle.

Thank you.

[kf0rt]

Why would the OS be limited by memory speed?

The ~3GB limit on 32-bit Windows is due to addressability. 2^32 is 4GB. Subtract a bunch for memory mapped video and other memory mapped hardware, and there's your true limit.

IDK, that is why I asked. I only go by what the manual tells me. Computers are not my thing. Sure, I can design a website (even in html), install programs, download files, change out hardware, even manipulate aspects of the platform (if that is the right way to put it), but I am not a guru by any means.

So what is the function of the 32/64 bit thing? What is the MHz reading on the ram chip (not the Meg/gig), how does the FSB come into play (I know what it is and what it does but where does it fit in), what about the cache (again I know what it does, sorta)..etc...

Or is this something that I need to do in depth research on? I'm not too awful worried about it as my pc does what I want it to, I can fix it physically most of the time, debug it, etc..Just curious.


There's another part to the 32/64 bit thing. On the surface, this is the width of the address bus and a 64-bit processor can address 2^64 memory locations. The fact that a PC may only be able to hold 32GB of memory is a limitation of the mainboard design, not a processor limit. But, this is also the size of the data bus and the internal data architecture of the processor. A 32-bit processor has 32 bit registers and can operate on data 32 bits at a time. With a 64 bit processor, that data path doubles to 64 bits. Ultimately, the wider data path can mean more effective throughput, and thus, more speed. (Speaking in very general terms - there are exceptions). In a true 64-bit implementation, the processor can fetch 64 bits in one memory cycle. In a 32 bit implementation, this takes two memory cycles. It's all about the speed.

In the past, there have been a number of processors with wide address buses, but narrower data buses. The 8088 on the original IBM-PC was a good example of this -- it had a 20-bit address bus (allowing a whopping 1 [highlight:1v5j3mda]Meg[/highlight:1v5j3mda]abyte of memory), but the data bus was only 16 bits.

The FSB is just the main memory / IO bus from the processor. I guess I'm not familiar with any motherboards today that have external cache (surely they exist). All of the common AMD and Intel processors these days implement a few meg of cache right in the processor itself; probably all that's needed in most cases, and you want cache to be very tightly coupled to the processor anyway. Ultimately, they'll probably find a way to incorporate large amounts of memory right on the processor silicon.

Given all this, and the GHz speeds of systems today, it's amazing to me that we ever have to wait for our computers to do much of anything. 'Course, it's equally amazing how cheaply one can be put together.

Good luck with the learning -- I could use a refresher course myself.

[KB3LAZ]

Why would the OS be limited by memory speed?

The ~3GB limit on 32-bit Windows is due to addressability. 2^32 is 4GB. Subtract a bunch for memory mapped video and other memory mapped hardware, and there's your true limit.

IDK, that is why I asked. I only go by what the manual tells me. Computers are not my thing. Sure, I can design a website (even in html), install programs, download files, change out hardware, even manipulate aspects of the platform (if that is the right way to put it), but I am not a guru by any means.

So what is the function of the 32/64 bit thing? What is the MHz reading on the ram chip (not the Meg/gig), how does the FSB come into play (I know what it is and what it does but where does it fit in), what about the cache (again I know what it does, sorta)..etc...

Or is this something that I need to do in depth research on? I'm not too awful worried about it as my pc does what I want it to, I can fix it physically most of the time, debug it, etc..Just curious.


There's another part to the 32/64 bit thing. On the surface, this is the width of the address bus and a 64-bit processor can address 2^64 memory locations. The fact that a PC may only be able to hold 32GB of memory is a limitation of the mainboard design, not a processor limit. But, this is also the size of the data bus and the internal data architecture of the processor. A 32-bit processor has 32 bit registers and can operate on data 32 bits at a time. With a 64 bit processor, that data path doubles to 64 bits. Ultimately, the wider data path can mean more effective throughput, and thus, more speed. (Speaking in very general terms - there are exceptions). In a true 64-bit implementation, the processor can fetch 64 bits in one memory cycle. In a 32 bit implementation, this takes two memory cycles. It's all about the speed.

In the past, there have been a number of processors with wide address buses, but narrower data buses. The 8088 on the original IBM-PC was a good example of this -- it had a 20-bit address bus (allowing a whopping 1 [highlight:2rqcqvfd]Meg[/highlight:2rqcqvfd]abyte of memory), but the data bus was only 16 bits.

The FSB is just the main memory / IO bus from the processor. I guess I'm not familiar with any motherboards today that have external cache (surely they exist). All of the common AMD and Intel processors these days implement a few meg of cache right in the processor itself; probably all that's needed in most cases, and you want cache to be very tightly coupled to the processor anyway. Ultimately, they'll probably find a way to incorporate large amounts of memory right on the processor silicon.

Given all this, and the GHz speeds of systems today, it's amazing to me that we ever have to wait for our computers to do much of anything. 'Course, it's equally amazing how cheaply one can be put together.

Good luck with the learning -- I could use a refresher course myself.

Thank you. I have a few gen ed courses left and can take no more social sciences, maybe I will take a computer course. Not on typing and using a computer because I know all of that.

I wonder if my school even offers a course that explains the ins and outs of hardware. :chin: Well, in depth that is beings I know what it is and what it does but not why.

Again, thanks to both of you for bringing me up to speed. :D

[kf0rt]

Thank you. I have a few gen ed courses left and can take no more social sciences, maybe I will take a computer course. Not on typing and using a computer because I know all of that.

I wonder if my school even offers a course that explains the ins and outs of hardware. :chin: Well, in depth that is beings I know what it is and what it does but not why.

Again, thanks to both of you for bringing me up to speed. :D

My problem is that most of my knowledge of the subject is so OLD. Northbridge? WTF? Yeah, know what it is and what it does, but I had to look it up. It seems like the folks who are into serious gaming know all this stuff these days.

Fuggeddabout a computer hardware course. What you're really after is a beginner course in computer architecture. Once this is under your belt, the rest will fall into place. I would think that this would be offered as a 100-level course in any Computer Engineering curriculum, probably labeled as something like "Fundamentals of Computers" or something. Concepts before details and all that.

You want to be a little cautious, though. I recall interviewing a guy once who had a BS in Computer Science. Asked him to draw a simple block diagram of a computer, and he couldn't do it. Epic FAIL. :snicker:

Being an intelligent fella, you could self-teach yourself all this pretty easily, but there's no reason not to pick up the school credit if the right courses are available.

Wiki lesson 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_logic_unit

[KB3LAZ]

Thank you. I have a few gen ed courses left and can take no more social sciences, maybe I will take a computer course. Not on typing and using a computer because I know all of that.

I wonder if my school even offers a course that explains the ins and outs of hardware. :chin: Well, in depth that is beings I know what it is and what it does but not why.

Again, thanks to both of you for bringing me up to speed. :D

My problem is that most of my knowledge of the subject is so OLD. Northbridge? WTF? Yeah, know what it is and what it does, but I had to look it up. It seems like the folks who are into serious gaming know all this stuff these days.

Fuggeddabout a computer hardware course. What you're really after is a beginner course in computer architecture. Once this is under your belt, the rest will fall into place. I would think that this would be offered as a 100-level course in any Computer Engineering curriculum, probably labeled as something like "Fundamentals of Computers" or something. Concepts before details and all that.

You want to be a little cautious, though. I recall interviewing a guy once who had a BS in Computer Science. Asked him to draw a simple block diagram of a computer, and he couldn't do it. Epic FAIL. :snicker:

Being an intelligent fella, you could self-teach yourself all this pretty easily, but there's no reason not to pick up the school credit if the right courses are available.

Wiki lesson 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_logic_unit

Ya, some of the gamers are crazy into this stuff.

As for the article, I will read it but yes it would be useful to pick up three credits in the process. I have run out of interesting gen ed courses.

Don't work I'm getting a BA not a BS. :snicker:

[ae6ip]

A 32-bit processor has 32 bit registers and can operate on data 32 bits at a time. With a 64 bit processor, that data path doubles to 64 bits. Ultimately, the wider data path can mean more effective throughput, and thus, more speed. (Speaking in very general terms - there are exceptions). In a true 64-bit implementation, the processor can fetch 64 bits in one memory cycle. In a 32 bit implementation, this takes two memory cycles. It's all about the speed.


A tiny nit: It's not the memory fetch size that determines the width of a processor, but the register size of the ALU. If the general registers for arithmetic are 64 bits wide, then the processor is a 64 bit processor. (It all gets really complex when you start talking about "wide word" VLIW processors, or worse, hybrids like itanium.)

[n2ize]

Why would the OS be limited by memory speed?

The ~3GB limit on 32-bit Windows is due to addressability. 2^32 is 4GB. Subtract a bunch for memory mapped video and other memory mapped hardware, and there's your true limit.

IDK, that is why I asked. I only go by what the manual tells me. Computers are not my thing. Sure, I can design a website (even in html), install programs, download files, change out hardware, even manipulate aspects of the platform (if that is the right way to put it), but I am not a guru by any means.

So what is the function of the 32/64 bit thing? What is the MHz reading on the ram chip (not the Meg/gig), how does the FSB come into play (I know what it is and what it does but where does it fit in), what about the cache (again I know what it does, sorta)..etc...

Or is this something that I need to do in depth research on? I'm not too awful worried about it as my pc does what I want it to, I can fix it physically most of the time, debug it, etc..Just curious.


There's another part to the 32/64 bit thing. On the surface, this is the width of the address bus and a 64-bit processor can address 2^64 memory locations. The fact that a PC may only be able to hold 32GB of memory is a limitation of the mainboard design, not a processor limit. But, this is also the size of the data bus and the internal data architecture of the processor. A 32-bit processor has 32 bit registers and can operate on data 32 bits at a time. With a 64 bit processor, that data path doubles to 64 bits. Ultimately, the wider data path can mean more effective throughput, and thus, more speed. (Speaking in very general terms - there are exceptions). In a true 64-bit implementation, the processor can fetch 64 bits in one memory cycle. In a 32 bit implementation, this takes two memory cycles. It's all about the speed.

In the past, there have been a number of processors with wide address buses, but narrower data buses. The 8088 on the original IBM-PC was a good example of this -- it had a 20-bit address bus (allowing a whopping 1 [highlight:1rg3t29e]Meg[/highlight:1rg3t29e]abyte of memory), but the data bus was only 16 bits.

The FSB is just the main memory / IO bus from the processor. I guess I'm not familiar with any motherboards today that have external cache (surely they exist). All of the common AMD and Intel processors these days implement a few meg of cache right in the processor itself; probably all that's needed in most cases, and you want cache to be very tightly coupled to the processor anyway. Ultimately, they'll probably find a way to incorporate large amounts of memory right on the processor silicon.

Given all this, and the GHz speeds of systems today, it's amazing to me that we ever have to wait for our computers to do much of anything. 'Course, it's equally amazing how cheaply one can be put together.

Good luck with the learning -- I could use a refresher course myself.

Thank you. I have a few gen ed courses left and can take no more social sciences, maybe I will take a computer course. Not on typing and using a computer because I know all of that.

I wonder if my school even offers a course that explains the ins and outs of hardware. :chin: Well, in depth that is beings I know what it is and what it does but not why.

Again, thanks to both of you for bringing me up to speed. :D

Learn assembly and you'll get a pretty good understanding of how the system is mapped out, how and how much resources are allocated and how floating point ops are carried out, how instructions arer translated, etc.

What's great you can learn it on your own in your spare time.