Now DoD thinks if you speak out, you're a terrorist

[W5GA]

The following is a complaint from the NorCal branch of the ACLU to the DoD. Does anybody else see a problem with this, or the clearly developing pattern of Gub'mint thinking? Don't toe the (in power at whatever time) party line, speak your mind...voila, you're a terrorist! Get the idea here, folks...IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR IDEOLOGY IS. Left, right, center - it's all the same to Uncle Sam.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/aclu-letter-6-10-2009.pdf

[Vinnie]

What,
and anybody should be surprised by this?

Geez, clear back in 1968 we were photographed by the Washington State Patrol while doing an anti-war march in Olympia, WA; and, surprise, the next four years the IRS audited my tax returns! Four years in a row!

General Eisenhower warned us about all this in his fairwell address, what, almost a half century ago?

Now we have a country of, by and for the corporations, and with military support. We lost our republic and democracy so long ago that nobody even remembers.

And who's to blame? WE ARE! We not only let it happen, but voted for those who put it to us. They didn't need to take away ur guns, they just conned you into giving away your country.

[N8YX]

It's okay. Obama will make it all better.

http://techbuddha.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/obama-hope.jpg

[M0GLO]

Why do I keep hearing you guys have more freedoms than anyone else being shouted from the peanut gallery every now and then?
It's obviously no longer true, if it ever was.

[W5GA]

After the cat has left the bag...


Pentagon Pulls Question That Called Protests a Form of Terrorism


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527181,00.html

I'm not the only one that thinks this is now endemic.

[N2RJ]

Why do I keep hearing you guys have more freedoms than anyone else being shouted from the peanut gallery every now and then?
It's obviously no longer true, if it ever was.

Freedoms vary by country.

Try denying the holocaust in Germany, or even Canada for that matter.

[KG4CGC]

Freedoms vary by country.

Try denying the holocaust in Germany, or even Canada for that matter.
Try saying "N*****" in America.

[KG4CGC]

What? It's true.

[N2RJ]

Freedoms vary by country.

Try denying the holocaust in Germany, or even Canada for that matter.
Try saying "N*****" in America.


You won't go to jail for saying it publicly.

But if you say "the holocaust didn't happen" or "the holocaust is a lie cooked up by the jews for them to take over the world" on the radio or even in a town square in Germany, Canada or a number of other countries you can very well go to jail. Holocaust denial is a crime in those places, and a rather serious one to boot.

Interesting fact as well - in my old country, I could drink a beer outside. Hell, I could even have an open alcohol container in a moving vehicle - as long as I wasn't driving said vehicle - and even then, drinking a beer and driving was no big deal for many. But my dad as a public servant was forbidden from writing letters to the editor of any newspaper for any reason. It was actually the law there.

So you gain some freedoms, you lose others.

[KG4CGC]

Are you saying that you couldn't get charged with a hate crime for using the "N" word?
Not to argue the point, but it could happen.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/judge-uses-n-word-as-she-is-charged
http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/links/newslist/nword.htm
http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/2008/01/man_fined_150_for_calling_city.html
As a civilized society, we should refrain from using such words however, you may indeed be charged and have your day in court depending where you use it.

[N2RJ]

Are you saying that you couldn't get charged with a hate crime for using the "N" word?
Not to argue the point, but it could happen.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/judge-uses-n-word-as-she-is-charged
http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/links/newslist/nword.htm
http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/2008/01/man_fined_150_for_calling_city.html
As a civilized society, we should refrain from using such words however, you may indeed be charged and have your day in court depending where you use it.

Exactly. Our laws here specify context. As much as I don't really like hate crime legislation (how about just charging someone with the actual crime, regardless of race?) it isn't broad sweeping and generalized. It takes specific circumstances to invoke a hate crime statute.

But holocaust denial needs no context in countries like Germany and Canada. Even if you mention it jokingly in public the plod will throw your arse in gaol.

[KU0DM]

Wanna hear a joke?
Department of Defense. :lol: :lol: :lol:
:shifty :oops:

[M0GLO]

Not a problem, it's a net gain for me since denying the holocaust or any of the other dumb things you could get in trouble for saying or doing here never even enter my repertoire.
I do not need require that kind of freedom and if it keeps the right wing fascist nutters down and out of the picture I consider it a great deal.
So in the end I get more freedom for giving up something really stupid idiocy that I'd never engage in anyway.

[M0GLO]

Wanna hear a joke?
Department of Defense. :lol: :lol: :lol:
:shifty :oops:
:lol: :lol:
Always one of my favs, right up there with Military Intelligence.

[W5GA]

Wanna hear a joke?
Department of Defense. :lol: :lol: :lol:
:shifty :oops:

Far better to have left it as the War Dept.

[n2ize]

Not a problem, it's a net gain for me since denying the holocaust or any of the other dumb things you could get in trouble for saying or doing here never even enter my repertoire.
I do not need require that kind of freedom and if it keeps the right wing fascist nutters down and out of the picture I consider it a great deal.
So in the end I get more freedom for giving up something really stupid idiocy that I'd never engage in anyway.


But it's not fairly applied. You can deny other genocides and not get in the least bit of trouble for it.

There is no such thing as freedom anywhere in the world including the USA. We are all prisoners to the whims of others. The only way to experience true freedom is to live in a world where you are entirely alone. Which would be nice actually but unfortunately is the kind of thing that only happens on The Twilight Zone.

[M0GLO]

Not a problem, it's a net gain for me since denying the holocaust or any of the other dumb things you could get in trouble for saying or doing here never even enter my repertoire.
I do not need require that kind of freedom and if it keeps the right wing fascist nutters down and out of the picture I consider it a great deal.
So in the end I get more freedom for giving up something really stupid idiocy that I'd never engage in anyway.


But it's not fairly applied. You can deny other genocides and not get in the least bit of trouble for it.

There is no such thing as freedom anywhere in the world including the USA. We are all prisoners to the whims of others. The only way to experience true freedom is to live in a world where you are entirely alone. Which would be nice actually but unfortunately is the kind of thing that only happens on The Twilight Zone.
True enough, but in a direct comparison I have more freedoms and a better quality of life here than I did there. Like Ryan says it's a trade off, I just happen to be trading less.

[N2RJ]

Not a problem, it's a net gain for me since denying the holocaust or any of the other dumb things you could get in trouble for saying or doing here never even enter my repertoire.
I do not need require that kind of freedom and if it keeps the right wing fascist nutters down and out of the picture I consider it a great deal.
So in the end I get more freedom for giving up something really stupid idiocy that I'd never engage in anyway.


But it's not fairly applied. You can deny other genocides and not get in the least bit of trouble for it.

There is no such thing as freedom anywhere in the world including the USA. We are all prisoners to the whims of others. The only way to experience true freedom is to live in a world where you are entirely alone. Which would be nice actually but unfortunately is the kind of thing that only happens on The Twilight Zone.
True enough, but in a direct comparison I have more freedoms and a better quality of life here than I did there. Like Ryan says it's a trade off, I just happen to be trading less.

Well judging by what you've said before, I could believe that because your life here apparently hasn't been all that good. Whose fault that is, I will let people draw their own conclusions.

[M0GLO]

How very Hannity of you.

[N8YX]

How very Hannity of you.
What a Rush!

[Vinnie]

Ah
for those not old enough to remember,
the War Department was only the Army (including the Army Air Corps). The Navy had the Department of the Navy.

[N7RJD]

Why do I keep hearing you guys have more freedoms than anyone else being shouted from the peanut gallery every now and then?
It's obviously no longer true, if it ever was.

Brainwashing leaves a lasting impression.

Personally I avoided brainwashing by keeping a dirty mind. :lol: :lol:

[N2RJ]

How very Hannity of you.

Checkmate.

By the way, I know what it's like to do consulting and be self employed here. And yes your healthcare will cost more if you do.

But that's one of the risks you take, and frankly the whole reason they pay you a higher rate as a contractor is because you don't have employer provided benefits.

[W7XF]

Saying the "N"-word might not get you thrown in jail for a hate crime... but remember, in 1994, a murderer walked free because a former LEO used that term to describe the accused.

[M0GLO]

How very Hannity of you.

Checkmate.

Yes, I did slap you pretty hard didn't I.

[kd6nig]

They could hire Jeff Foxworthy to run down the list of "you might be a terrorist" but at the rate we're going, its going to be a 30 second show, because he'll just get up on stage, say "If you do anything, you might be a terrorist." Won't be any laughing.

[N2RJ]

How very Hannity of you.

Checkmate.

Yes, I did slap you pretty hard didn't I.

Not only are you wrong, but you're completely clueless too! :lol:

[kd6nig]

Saying the "N"-word might not get you thrown in jail for a hate crime... but remember, in 1994, a murderer walked free because a former LEO used that term to describe the accused.

Its ok, it took 10 years but LVPD finally got him :)

[Vinnie]

On the other hand,
the Turks still deny the Armenian thing.
and the Americans are a little sensitive about
the killing of Indians, Vietnamese, Blacks, and JA civilians.....

[KU0DM]

and the Americans are a little sensitive about
the killing of Indians, Vietnamese, Blacks, and JA civilians.....

I know people (Republicans) who think dropping the atom bomb on Japan was the greatest thing we've ever done.

[M0GLO]

Not only are you wrong, but you're completely clueless too! :lol:
Me, clueless? That's funny, I don't remember signing on to work for News Corp.

[Vinnie]

KU0DM,
Well, the two atomic bombs are still a hotly debated topic in many circles, including amongst historians.

Around the fifith anniversary of those events a couple of books were still published, and still argued about.

I'm curious about the notion of 'state terrorism'.

Did those two bombs constitute 'state terrorism'?

If terrorism includes the use of violence on civilian populations to get them to change their political opinions and behavior, and their governments behavior as well, well, then I guess we committed state terrorism! To say nothing of the fire bombing raids on several JA cities and several German cities. Then, of course, there is VietNam. More tons of bombs dropped, more or less at random, on those people than during WW2, and the use of Agent Orange. A slippery slope when you start to consider if your own country committed terrorist acts.......

[N4VGB]

Well, the two atomic bombs are still a hotly debated topic in many circles, including amongst historians.



Pretty simple Vince, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The Japanese there fought magnificently and almost all of them died, very few prisoners were taken.

Constant conventional HE and incendiary bombing of Japanese cities and still no mention of unconditional surrender from the Japanese (believe it or not, the Japanese were hanging on to the idea of "terms" in their surrender). So the Japanese receive the only two nukes in the world at the time and luckily didn't know that the U.S. had no other nukes to drop on them.

After the misery of Okinawa and Iwo Jima, I can easily understand why the nukes were dropped. The idea and calculated losses of invading the remaing Japanes eIslands would have brought about horrendous losses to Americans and Japanese alike. The total casualities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have been small compared to Japanese casualities that would have been suffered in a conventional invasion of the main Japanese Islands. Total casualities from the two nukes were far lower than those caused by the other bombing methods anyway. In just one incendiary bombing of Tokyo there were over 100K Japanese killed.

So you've got an enemy that shows every intention of fighting to the last man and not showing any inclination towards accepting your demand for unconditional surrender, you pull out your biggest guns and fire them.

[Vinnie]

As usual you have a nice, simple and largely wrong answer.

[N4VGB]

As usual you have a nice, simple and largely wrong answer.

Nice broad BS statement, with no substance, from Vince. :chin:

Now why does that not surprise me in the least!? :lol:

[WØTKX]

There is no such thing as freedom anywhere in the world including the USA. We are all prisoners to the whims of others. The only way to experience true freedom is to live in a world where you are entirely alone. Which would be nice actually but unfortunately is the kind of thing that only happens on The Twilight Zone.

I find my freedom in fleeting moments of High Gee Bliss. :mrgreen:

http://www.schischule-eichenhof.com/images/race.jpg

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Kawasaki-Concoursc.jpg

[Vinnie]

Well,
VGB,
try looking up the following for starters.

What was the role of pressure from the USSR on Truman's decision to use the bomb?

How important were the costs of developing the weapon on Truman's decision to use the bomb?

Even assuming you didn't study much for your boxtop Tech license, I assume you at least purchased the book and looked at the pictures.

[N4VGB]

Well,
VGB,
try looking up the following for starters.

What was the role of pressure from the USSR on Truman's decision to use the bomb?

How important were the costs of developing the weapon on Truman's decision to use the bomb?

Even assuming you didn't study much for your boxtop Tech license, I assume you at least purchased the book and looked at the pictures.

As usual, Vince has NOTHING! :dance: :lol:

So you really think Stalin had a big influence on Truman's decision or that the cost of the project was an important part of the decision for Truman!? Those ideas must have come from some useless PhD that needed to write a book for income. :roll: :lol:

Or could those be ideas that you plan to use in your own rewrite of history, for your long awaited book? :doh:

[N7RJD]

Now DoD thinks if you speak out, you're a terrorist

"Terrorist" buzz word of the day. It used to be if you didn't fall in line and play nice you were a Communist. New word, same drive for control.

[KG4CGC]

We can take charge of that word and dilute it so that it loses its power and the people trying to use it to control will have to find a new word. Then we'll dilute it too.
Call everything everywhere "terrorist."
"Look at that terrorist hotdog. Burning rubber like a terrorist."

[WØTKX]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Terrier Terrorist.

http://www.fuglydog.com/photogallery/terrier.jpg

[Vinnie]

What a wonderous display of arrogant stupidity.

I knew you'd be too lazy and/or dumb to actually read anything about the decision to use the bomb.

Discussion over, you have demonstrated that you are both ignorant and stupid.