Holy cow

[kf0rt]

Best said with Indian accent, Simpsons style. :dance:

Playing with WiFi and I bought a couple Linksys WRT54G routers on eBay for cheap.

Just flashed one of them with DD-WRT, and it pretty much "came right up." Flash via tftp, you kiddin' me?

Anyone else playing with this stuff? I'm interested in repeater mode. In theory, this will act as a self-contained WiFi repeater. Receive on one network and transmit to another, thus extending the range.

Ultimately, I'd like to get this running and put it in my car as a mobile repeater of sorts to take advantage of the (very few) free WiFi hotspots by extending their range a bit.

[kc7jty]

good luck, I hope it works. Then you can tell me how to do it.
When we stayed in Charleston all the motels/hostle had no password wifi.

[kf0rt]

good luck, I hope it works. Then you can tell me how to do it.

Kinda new to WiFi, but will figure it out. Mostly, I want to connect my iPod to the Internet at work without going through the "IT" department.

[WØTKX]

good luck, I hope it works. Then you can tell me how to do it.

Kinda new to WiFi, but will figure it out. Mostly, I want to connect my iPod to the Internet at work without going through the "IT" department.

Imagine that!

[PA5COR]

Running the WRT54 GL (linux) here.
Put on some other software, the 4 mB internalk memory allows that, and put it in 250 milliwatts output.

Homebrewed an vertical with 15 dBD gain, put it on the roof, and have 4 miles radius range.

I'm also using one with sector antenna's for business fairs, with an computer for logging in with ticket system.
Lotsa fun with that system.

Now developping very low energy using billboards with high brightness low energy LED's and electronics steering the arrays to light up with the different effects.
Since the government stimulates projects like this 70% subsidised pay back for the buyer of those systems.

Putting up the first onee this week, 10 x 6 feet in size.

[N2RJ]

I don't play around with cheapie routers anymore.

My home "router" is a PC running pfSense in my basement.


That way the state table can be as large as I need it.

[WØTKX]

That's interesting about the billboards, Cor. I work on the SkyLine display systems here at work. We are also almost finished installing PIPS tolling cameras... they work very well.

A "DX" wireless router looks like something cool to do... very cool. I've been reading. :mrgreen:

[N8YX]

good luck, I hope it works. Then you can tell me how to do it.

Kinda new to WiFi, but will figure it out. Mostly, I want to connect my iPod to the Internet at work without going through the "IT" department.

Imagine that!

Ad-hoc and non-controlled WiFi portals...prime candidates for smackdown. shutdown and/or confiscation...

[N2RJ]

good luck, I hope it works. Then you can tell me how to do it.

Kinda new to WiFi, but will figure it out. Mostly, I want to connect my iPod to the Internet at work without going through the "IT" department.

Imagine that!

Ad-hoc and non-controlled WiFi portals...prime candidates for smackdown. shutdown and/or confiscation...

Cisco port security ftw

[kf0rt]

I don't play around with cheapie routers anymore.

My home "router" is a PC running pfSense in my basement.


That way the state table can be as large as I need it.

Can you set it in a field and run it for a month off a battery?

[kd6nig]

Most "Free" networks set restrictions on the use of their services. Usually repeating or resharing (which is what you'd be doing, only with yourself, but potentially to others if not secured well, but either way) is usually Verboten.

Once they find you, they will block you and will not be too happy with ya :)

[kf0rt]

Most "Free" networks set restrictions on the use of their services. Usually repeating or resharing (which is what you'd be doing, only with yourself, but potentially to others if not secured well, but either way) is usually Verboten.

Once they find you, they will block you and will not be too happy with ya :)

Yeah, I know. This is just one of those educational things that I can't resist.

I've got an almost real Internet connection at work (real, but it's iPrism'd :sick: ), so it's not something I need. And actually, it's the RF + data aspects that fascinate me. Take a "cheapie" consumer-grade WiFi router, change the firmware and it's a full-blown standalone WiFi repeater.

Just got it working in-shack here. Got a stock Linksys WRT54G rev 8 hooked up to the cable modem. Nothing fancy here (I don't need THAT much porn, Ryan). Second WRT54G (rev 5) running DD-WRT across the room and set up as a bridged repeater. I've got a Dell desktop connected via Cat-5 and it can access the Internet wirelessly via a connection to the first router. My iPod can connect wirelessly to either router and has the same network access from both.

Just playing.... :mrgreen:

[kf0rt]

Running the WRT54 GL (linux) here.
Put on some other software, the 4 mB internalk memory allows that, and put it in 250 milliwatts output.

Homebrewed an vertical with 15 dBD gain, put it on the roof, and have 4 miles radius range.

I'm also using one with sector antenna's for business fairs, with an computer for logging in with ticket system.
Lotsa fun with that system.

Now developping very low energy using billboards with high brightness low energy LED's and electronics steering the arrays to light up with the different effects.
Since the government stimulates projects like this 70% subsidised pay back for the buyer of those systems.

Putting up the first onee this week, 10 x 6 feet in size.


That's amazing, Cor.

Got any good antenna plans for this sort of thing? I'm just starting to look at antennas and it sure seems like homebrew would be simple at those frequencies.

Love to see some pictures and info on the billboards, too. I love the LED's but haven't done too much with them. Got a clock project I did a couple years ago - some details here: http://home.comcast.net/~kf0rt/dotclk/dotclk.htm and the two clocks I built are still running. Nothing as elaborate as a billboard, though.

BTW... Many of my ancestors are from the Winterswijk area. There are times I wonder if they made a mistake moving here. :mrgreen:

[W2IBC]

just make shure you turn on encryption on that thar WIFI to keep them leeches out.

[PA5COR]

http://pe2er.nl/

A friend of me.
Homebrew swr meter for SHF homebrew, vertical homebrew antenna for wi-fi etc.
All in English/Dutch language.

I buildt the coax antenna, sector antenna's and bi quads and variations on them.

Put a bi-quad in the focal point of an old 4 foot dish and tested the range for long path wi-fi work.

Lotsa fun, and it is ham related, using a computer as router/firewall encryption/decryption after the wi-fi router etc.

My m8 on wich backbone i surf can do pretty much what he wants, he owns the firm.
Beeing his partner in his job i can experiment without problems.

We try to find solutions for wi-fi networks, as we needed it for the large business fairs we organise, or customers need in their firm.

I'm the one thinking out the technical side, he sells it and we share the finances.
That way we stumbled in the energy saving billboards design.

He's the certified one on Networks and setting up the systems, doing security installations telephone and internet networks etc.

I tag along, helping him out, after he and his wife got their ham licenses wich i taught them at home preparing them for the exams.

We both profit from this, i have lots of spare time to fill up ;)
We both work on our local repeaterss and beacons, helping out the fixed crew/owners, donated new antenna's and coax, and work

http://www.muntronde.nl/rzghvn/in.htm click onderhoud and click the piccies to seee us working on the repeaters on the site.

;)

[N2RJ]

Homebrewed an vertical with 15 dBD gain, put it on the roof, and have 4 miles radius range.

Actual tested or theoretical range? What kind of terrain?

That is incredible if true. Of course, I'm a skeptic.

[kf0rt]

Been playing with the WiFi routers this weekend (they seem to be breeding here in the shack), and think I've got "it" working.

Take a Plain Jane WRT54G Linksys router and reflash the firmware with DD-WRT V24SP1 (free). You can buy these routers all day on eBay for about $35 shipped, or $55 new at Newegg (not sure about the G2 models). Put it in "repeater" mode and define the link to your main router. Define a virtual WiFi network.

You can now unplug it and move it and it will act as a standalone WiFi repeater that requires only power. Your remote nodes connect to the virtual network. The repeater transfers it all to the "real" LAN. Separate security on both legs.

Handy stuff if you need a way to extend range. I'm doing multi-hop on my desk. :doh:

[ad4mg]

Been playing with the WiFi routers this weekend (they seem to be breeding here in the shack), and think I've got "it" working.

Take a Plain Jane WRT54G Linksys router and reflash the firmware with DD-WRT V24SP1 (free). You can buy these routers all day on eBay for about $35 shipped, or $55 new at Newegg (not sure about the G2 models). Put it in "repeater" mode and define the link to your main router. Define a virtual WiFi network.

You can now unplug it and move it and it will act as a standalone WiFi repeater that requires only power. Your remote nodes connect to the virtual network. The repeater transfers it all to the "real" LAN. Separate security on both legs.

Handy stuff if you need a way to extend range. I'm doing multi-hop on my desk. :doh:
How bad is the additional latency? I opted here to use high gain antennas (am using two of these units in "bridge mode" to bridge the network in my shack with the one in the house) to cover the additional distance.

[kf0rt]

Been playing with the WiFi routers this weekend (they seem to be breeding here in the shack), and think I've got "it" working.

Take a Plain Jane WRT54G Linksys router and reflash the firmware with DD-WRT V24SP1 (free). You can buy these routers all day on eBay for about $35 shipped, or $55 new at Newegg (not sure about the G2 models). Put it in "repeater" mode and define the link to your main router. Define a virtual WiFi network.

You can now unplug it and move it and it will act as a standalone WiFi repeater that requires only power. Your remote nodes connect to the virtual network. The repeater transfers it all to the "real" LAN. Separate security on both legs.

Handy stuff if you need a way to extend range. I'm doing multi-hop on my desk. :doh:
How bad is the additional latency? I opted here to use high gain antennas (am using two of these units in "bridge mode" to bridge the network in my shack with the one in the house) to cover the additional distance.

Not really seeing any noticeable latency, though I'm sure it would be ugly on downloads. I've got a Mac Mini and an iPod Touch as clients and for web surfing stuff, they seem about the same as being connected to the main router.

The only other WiFi client I have here at the house is my media server hooked up to the HDTV upstairs. We routinely stream video over WiFi (g) with that, but not HD. If I get a chance, I'll switch that to the secondary connection and see how it does.

Half the trick is to play without breaking the stuff that works. :doh:

[kb2crk]

i have set up a wireless network at a camp ground using one of the linksys routers and two of linksys's range extenders. covered 9 cabins and 15 trailer spaces with out a problem. the range extenders are just basic repeaters and only required power.

[PA5COR]

Yes, tested here.
Look on the ZED for my call, and find the googl sat piccie of my home and neighbourhood for the flat buildt up terrain.
I;m flashing the routers with Tibor software wich gives lots of extra settings, more firewall settings, additional extended list of MAC adres filtering, enable the speed booster and set the HF output to any setting up to 250 mwatts
The 5 feeet vertical fed with coax similar to LMR 600 is up on the roof at 40 feet above ground.

We use a similar router with switchable sector antenna's to run temprary wi-fi internet of busines fairs we organise, the last hall was 400 x 800 meters long and we had 100% signal in there, even outside the metal building on the parking spot 500 meters away.

Then after the router a computer is used for aditional ticket system and firewall and server.
There is more software around for thiis router, like DD-WRT software, but the Tibor software fitted our needs the most.
The sector and panel antenna's were made by myself, just another weekend project for rainy day's.
For roaming on hollidays i use an long range pc card with 400 mW output fed into an 6 dB magnetic antenna on the roof of the van to do mail etc on the free wi-fi accespoints along the route or places that support it.
For that i have a list on TomTom routeplanner and wi-fi radar on the laptop that constantly looks for open A.P's.

Senao can deliver these powerfull pc wi fi cards.






Homebrewed an vertical with 15 dBD gain, put it on the roof, and have 4 miles radius range.

Actual tested or theoretical range? What kind of terrain?

That is incredible if true. Of course, I'm a skeptic.

[W2IBC]

i got a netgear card in my box. has the nice removable antenna. so i made me a pigtail sma to n female got some lmr 400 coax n males. and a nice yagi with about 16gb gain on a pole about 15 foot off the ground.

im able to get into the library network about 5.5 miles away

Cell 01 - Address: 00:1C:DF:CD:99:74
ESSID:"APL"
Protocol:IEEE 802.11g
Mode:Managed
Frequency:2.412 GHz (Channel 1)
Quality:11/100 Signal level:-88 dBm Noise level:-96 dBm
Encryption key:off
Bit Rates:1 Mb/s; 2 Mb/s; 5.5 Mb/s; 11 Mb/s; 18 Mb/s
24 Mb/s; 36 Mb/s; 54 Mb/s; 6 Mb/s; 9 Mb/s
12 Mb/s; 48 Mb/s
Extra:bcn_int=100
Extra:atim=0

able to connect signal dose flutter a bit. (jumps around from -94DBm to -86DBm) but not at all bad for 5.5 miles away

[kf0rt]

Progress report:

(Keep in mind this is just experimenting...)

Getting a usable signal from an apartment complex that's a good half mile away and the repeater works. Signal strength showing about 8-10% with the stock antennas and a parabolic (tinfoil and paper) reflector on one of them. If I'm not mistaken, one antenna is used for RX and the other for TX, so I probably need another reflector.

Seems like the next step would have to be higher gain antennas. If I get a chance this weekend, I'll have to flash my V5 router (it has removable antennas).

In other news, I worked Bangkok, Thailand on SMS this morning. :lol: :lol:

[kd6nig]

Progress report:

(Keep in mind this is just experimenting...)

Getting a usable signal from an apartment complex that's a good half mile away and the repeater works. Signal strength showing about 8-10% with the stock antennas and a parabolic (tinfoil and paper) reflector on one of them. If I'm not mistaken, one antenna is used for RX and the other for TX, so I probably need another reflector.

Seems like the next step would have to be higher gain antennas. If I get a chance this weekend, I'll have to flash my V5 router (it has removable antennas).

In other news, I worked Bangkok, Thailand on SMS this morning. :lol: :lol:

There should be a config option in the router to specify what you want the antennas to do. Most by default use both and choose the best signal out of the two, or both if that works.

Depending on your firmware you may be able to refine that.

Just be careful in tweaking your transmit power-if it starts getting warm, back it off a bit :)

[kf0rt]

Progress report:

(Keep in mind this is just experimenting...)

Getting a usable signal from an apartment complex that's a good half mile away and the repeater works. Signal strength showing about 8-10% with the stock antennas and a parabolic (tinfoil and paper) reflector on one of them. If I'm not mistaken, one antenna is used for RX and the other for TX, so I probably need another reflector.

Seems like the next step would have to be higher gain antennas. If I get a chance this weekend, I'll have to flash my V5 router (it has removable antennas).

In other news, I worked Bangkok, Thailand on SMS this morning. :lol: :lol:

There should be a config option in the router to specify what you want the antennas to do. Most by default use both and choose the best signal out of the two, or both if that works.

Depending on your firmware you may be able to refine that.

Just be careful in tweaking your transmit power-if it starts getting warm, back it off a bit :)

Does that mean there's a duplexer built in?

As I recall, DD-WRT has a setting for RX and a setting for TX -- each can be set to left, right or auto. I haven't played with that yet.

[kd6nig]

The settings I've seen have right, left, and both for tx and rx.

Honestly, in theory, I think you'd want to leave it on both-esp since you're really repeating, not using it just as an access point.

I don't know if there is a transmitter for each antenna or not, I'm thinking not-but you never know-on my router you can set the transmit level but there is only one setting, so I'm guessing one transmitter.

[kf0rt]

Yeah, I kinda figured only one transmitter and receiver, but maybe some antenna switching that would let you connect the RX to one or both antennas, for instance.

I have a lot to learn on this stuff and haven't found a decent tutorial anywhere. Like... how can you have 5 routers all operating on the same fixed frequency and all work?

Anyway... tried to flash my V5 Linksys this afternoon and it ain't working. I can ping it, but it's not taking the ftp at all. Ordered a JTAG cable off eBay for $10. That'll be a useful tool...

[N1LAF]

Can someone create a write-up on this, maybe with pictures illustrating the repeater configuration? I'll post the write-up on the HamIsland website. I already linked dd-wrt from the site. This is a topic worth exploring.

[KD0ANL]

In other news, I worked Bangkok, Thailand on SMS this morning.

Now that's funny!

[kf0rt]

Can someone create a write-up on this, maybe with pictures illustrating the repeater configuration? I'll post the write-up on the HamIsland website. I already linked dd-wrt from the site. This is a topic worth exploring.

Ham Island has a web site? Man, you guys need to advertise a bit! Oh, now I see it - the WWW up in the corner! :oops:

I'll be happy to give some thought to a write-up, Paul. It's mostly just pulling together a small few bits that are already on the web, though. I'll see if I can put it all in one place and polish it up a bit for you, though.

[N1LAF]

Can someone create a write-up on this, maybe with pictures illustrating the repeater configuration? I'll post the write-up on the HamIsland website. I already linked dd-wrt from the site. This is a topic worth exploring.

Ham Island has a web site? Man, you guys need to advertise a bit! Oh, now I see it - the WWW up in the corner! :oops:

I'll be happy to give some thought to a write-up, Paul. It's mostly just pulling together a small few bits that are already on the web, though. I'll see if I can put it all in one place and polish it up a bit for you, though.

How about collaborating with PA5COR, since he has experience with this stuff also. Have to take it from from near beginner point of view, and build up to knowledgeable.

Yes, we do have a website. Matches well with The_Islander style.

[kf0rt]

Will work on some docs after a bit more playing. :)

This is "full battery" test. Got the router plugged into one of those emergency start / compressor / flashlight / inverter things with nothing more than a cigarette lighter cord. Using the Aspire One net book (also on battery) and it's all routed to my "home" WiFi network.

Checked a V8 router in the lab today and it draws 150ma off a 12V bench supply. This is a V5; should be the same. I'm thinking a car system ought to power one of these for quite a long time without starting the motor. The reason for the V5 router is that it has removable antennas (you can guess the next step).

If you're reading this, Cor, got any advice for 2.4 GHz mobile omnidirectional antennas? Just started looking into that, and I'm thinking I'd like something fairly unobtrusive; maybe mag-mounts I can put on the deck of the trunk or even on the roof of the car.

Tomorrow, I'm going to see how well the router works on the back deck of the car (behind the back seat) with the stock Linksys antennas. Ultimately, I'm thinking the battery "supply" and the router can go in the trunk with external antennas.

[WØTKX]

THis is getting verrrrry interisting. Thanks.

Would this (claimed 15 dBi) antenna work for ya?

http://www.radiolabs.com/products/antennas/2.4gig/high-gain-wifi-antenna.php

http://www.radiolabs.com/images/products/high-gain-omni-wifi-antenna.jpg

[kf0rt]

THis is getting verrrrry interisting. Thanks.

Would this (claimed 15 dBi) antenna work for ya?

http://www.radiolabs.com/products/antennas/2.4gig/high-gain-wifi-antenna.php

http://www.radiolabs.com/images/products/high-gain-omni-wifi-antenna.jpg

Niiiice! A little pricey for my immediate pursuits, tho (especially since I think I need two of them).

Keeping in mind the car mount, I'm thinking along these lines:
http://www.wlanparts.com/product/MA24-7N/7dBi_24GHz_Mobile_Antenna__Requires_MM110N_or_MM90 N_Vehicle_Mounts.html

I'm pretty sure this will beat the heck out of the stock "duck" antenna, and I've pretty well proven that I can get it to work with the stock antenna. Should be able to do a pair of these with mounts and connectors for about $60.

Gettin' fun... :whistle:

Had a guy stop by my office last week wanting to know what I knew about a new WiFi network and how he could get access. Mentioned the WiFi router on my filing cabinet and even knew the network name. Oops. He wanted access to the company LAN (WiFi signal is nonexistent at my end of the building); can't help him there. Actually, I'd be more than happy to throw an AP up, but then I'd have to 'splain it to our "IT" people. Ain't worth the hassle. Had the option to run that group once, but didn't want to take the pay cut. :dance:

And I do know how to turn SSID broadcasting off. It's just more fun to poke sticks in the cage sometimes. :lol:

[WØTKX]

And I do know how to turn SSID broadcasting off. It's just more fun to poke sticks in the cage sometimes. :lol:

Why, you're just a WiFi Troll... :twisted:

Better keep an eye on that "honeypot". :lol:

[kf0rt]

And I do know how to turn SSID broadcasting off. It's just more fun to poke sticks in the cage sometimes. :lol:

Why, you're just a WiFi Troll... :twisted:

Better keep an eye on that "honeypot". :lol:

I had a great answer going, but in light of the "honeypot" I deleted it. :lol: :lol:

[WØTKX]

I had a great answer going, but in light of the "honeypot" I deleted it. :lol: :lol:

Tease. :P

[kf0rt]

I need to write the history of LAN where I work. It's stunning.

[kf0rt]

Reprogrammed my 3rd (and last) Linksys WRT54G WiFi router to DD-WRT today. This is the main router in the house here -- feeds Comcast Internet to everything. Painless change, but reprogrammed all the security and stuff too, so this meant testing everything from the iPod to the HTPC to the wife's WoW machine. It all came right up. 7 computers connected and none of them blinked at the conversion outside of entering the new WiFi password. DD-WRT kicks a$$.

Should be playing with antennas in a couple days. I ordered two of these (yes, cheap bastard I am!):

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ANT2400Q7A&cat=NET

May have gone TOO cheap here - we'll see. These antennas come with RP-SMA connectors; the Linksys needs RP-TNC, so I figure I'll just cut the connectors off and install new. The RP-TNC connectors arrived today from Pasadena Networks in CA.

May go with better antennas if this pans out. The idea is still to take it mobile, and for that, mag-mount antennas seem ideal for experimenting. I ran some tests earlier this week, just setting the router on the shelf behind the back seat. It worked pretty well, but I think I'm losing too much signal inside the car.

There is a lot of cool stuff over at Pasadena Networks, for those interested. Serious antennas and all sorts of WiFi doo-dads. Their URL is http://www.wlanparts.com/ I hadn't heard of them a week ago, but they got my connectors here in 2 days via USPS Priority mail. Please let me know if you run into other cool WiFi vendors. I found this just searching around in Google.

Fun stuff, though... Once configured, the router only needs 12VDC to run. That is, you don't need a computer connected for it to work. In addition, all of the router admin stuff can be done via WiFi, so you can make any configuration changes wirelessly.

Oh, another data point from this week: The WRT54G draws about 150ma @ 12 VDC when running, and appears to run fine on 13.8V. This is really important because it means it's portable and is very well suited to a mobile environment. You could, for instance, package it with a 10 amp-hour gel cell and get a couple days out of it pretty easily. A decent car battery would run it for almost 2 weeks, in theory.

More to come...

[kf0rt]

Guerrilla WiFi repeater:

(This is borderline wankeriffic!)

The antennas arrived today -- a couple really cheap mag-mounts from geeks.com (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ANT2400Q7A&cpc=SCH). I'm not sure they'll stay on the car in highway driving, but I don't normally drive on the highway. They come with about 4' of RG-174 and SMA connectors. I had to cut the SMA's off and install RP-TNC's to fit the router. Of course, the TNC's I bought are for RG-59, so it's a real kludge.
http://home.comcast.net/~kf0rt/wifi/wm1.jpg

A few big tie thingies mounts the router. This is a "stock" Linksys WRT54G I bought off eBay for 30 bucks. It's a version 5 router and that's special because version 5 and before had removable antennas. Of course, it's running DD-WRT firmware and configured in repeater mode. Yeah, the hardwire connections DO work.
http://home.comcast.net/~kf0rt/wifi/wm2.jpg

Here's the power supply. One of those million-in-one save-my-butt emergency car thingies I bought at Costco back when the economy didn't suck.
http://home.comcast.net/~kf0rt/wifi/wm3.jpg

And the proof. Recycle-bin mobile with a netbook (and cheap beer). This is connected to Google using my home WiFi network VIA the repeater in the car.
http://home.comcast.net/~kf0rt/wifi/wm4.jpg

When (if?) I get a chance, I'll write this up a bit more formally. Need to take it into work and test it tomorrow.

[n2ize]

I don't play around with cheapie routers anymore.

My home "router" is a PC running pfSense in my basement.


That way the state table can be as large as I need it.

Thats basically what I am doing here (at least some of the time). My router is also a PC however it's running Linux not pfSense. The majority of my home wireless network is hard wired cable but, there is a wireless access point attached to the network for the wireless laptop, my neice's ipod, etc.

[N2RJ]

I don't play around with cheapie routers anymore.

My home "router" is a PC running pfSense in my basement.


That way the state table can be as large as I need it.

Thats basically what I am doing here (at least some of the time). My router is also a PC however it's running Linux not pfSense. The majority of my home wireless network is hard wired cable but, there is a wireless access point attached to the network for the wireless laptop, my neice's ipod, etc.

pfsense is FreeBSD. It's already hardened and most of the unnecessary stuff is stripped out. It is also very feature rich.