Hamfest Complaint

[W3WN]

Last night, the chairman of our hamfest got an email from a disgruntled attendee. He forwarded a copy to me for advice.

Essentially, the complaint boils down to this: The attendee was unhappy, while waiting in line for the gates to open (8 AM to the public, but dealer setup was 6 - 8 AM), to see someone walk out to the door and to his car with an armful of gear. The complaint further alleges that (a) the someone is not a ham, (b) the someone is a known eBay reseller, and (c) the someone basically laughed in his face.

This is followed by a few paragraphs of complaint, including complaints about how eBay is ruining hamfests.

My advice was to, for now, simply tell the email writer that we'll look into it, but we can't promise anything beyond that. This way, the guy can't then further complain that he was being ignored.

The problem, of course, is that even if every word in the complaint is accurate and true, I doubt that there's anything we can do. We can't restrict table sales to hams or ham clubs, or ban ebay sellers... legalisms aside -- who wants to be sued, especially when you know you'd lose? --, trying to enforce or police restrictions like that are near impossible anyway. (Incidentally, the club's lawyer... ok, the club member who happens to be a lawyer... was copied on this just to make sure we stay on the right side of the law)

And trading & selling amongst the dealers before a hamfest will go on as it has... again, something near impossible to stop.

Any thoughts on what to politely say to this person?

73

[ad4mg]

Last night, the chairman of our hamfest got an email from a disgruntled attendee. He forwarded a copy to me for advice.

Essentially, the complaint boils down to this: The attendee was unhappy, while waiting in line for the gates to open (8 AM to the public, but dealer setup was 6 - 8 AM), to see someone walk out to the door and to his car with an armful of gear. The complaint further alleges that (a) the someone is not a ham, (b) the someone is a known eBay reseller, and (c) the someone basically laughed in his face.

This is followed by a few paragraphs of complaint, including complaints about how eBay is ruining hamfests.

My advice was to, for now, simply tell the email writer that we'll look into it, but we can't promise anything beyond that. This way, the guy can't then further complain that he was being ignored.

The problem, of course, is that even if every word in the complaint is accurate and true, I doubt that there's anything we can do. We can't restrict table sales to hams or ham clubs, or ban ebay sellers... legalisms aside -- who wants to be sued, especially when you know you'd lose? --, trying to enforce or police restrictions like that are near impossible anyway. (Incidentally, the club's lawyer... ok, the club member who happens to be a lawyer... was copied on this just to make sure we stay on the right side of the law)

And trading & selling amongst the dealers before a hamfest will go on as it has... again, something near impossible to stop.

Any thoughts on what to politely say to this person?

73

Pretty much exactly what you posted. If he/she cannot accept a reasonable and honest explanation, then there will be little you can do to make them happy.

Reality seldom appears in black & white, and you've outlined the problems faced with all practical solutions available. To expect anything else is unreasonable, and if the unhappy party remains unhappy, offer him a refund on the purchase price of his ticket and ask him to not attend next year's hamfest.

There are very few other options available.

I am assuming that the person carrying equipment out early was someone with a table.

I guess you could try to ban trades before the opening to all but that will be hard to enforce. It would give a front that the concern is being addressed and that there won't be anyone blatantly walking out early with equipment.

I started a thread asking what people would like to see at hamfests. I see that they are no longer what they used to be, and I largely see ebay as the culprit for this happening. Look at me. My HF rig I got from an advert on QRZ. My TS-700A from ebay. My TS-600 is from ebay. I have been selling equipment on ebay. I don't like QRZ so much because on several instances, I have lost the deal due to someone else getting to the seller before me even though I had the trade solidified first. Maybe hamfests should be becoming something different that what they have been traditionally. Some things you just can't change.

[W3WN]

I am assuming that the person carrying equipment out early was someone with a table.

I guess you could try to ban trades before the opening to all but that will be hard to enforce. It would give a front that the concern is being addressed and that there won't be anyone blatantly walking out early with equipment.

I started a thread asking what people would like to see at hamfests. I see that they are no longer what they used to be, and I largely see ebay as the culprit for this happening. Look at me. My HF rig I got from an advert on QRZ. My TS-700A from ebay. My TS-600 is from ebay. I have been selling equipment on ebay. I don't like QRZ so much because on several instances, I have lost the deal due to someone else getting to the seller before me even though I had the trade solidified first. Maybe hamfests should be becoming something different that what they have been traditionally. Some things you just can't change.
Well, he had to have a table (either in his own name, shared with someone else, the name of a club he was in, or in the name of his business entity). If you didn't have a table reserved, you didn't get in before 8 AM. (If you hadn't paid for it, you paid or you didn't get in before 8!). And the induhvidual named as the culprit was not a member of our club... and frankly, if you weren't working at the hamfest, they you were treated as another paying amateur -- and didn't get in before 8. That is one nice thing about having a hall with only one main entrance (and a second dealer-only entrance, guarded at all times, and closed at 8 AM).

I did hear back from the club lawyer. Technically, we could attempt to impose a "no sales no trade no nothing setup only" restriction before 8. But let's be honest... what's to stop me from saying "hey Joe, as soon as they open the doors, I'll give you $75 for your widget!" or "just set it aside for me, I'll give you the cash as soon as the clock turns 8" or anything along those lines? Nothing.

EBay and the other related sites have had an effect on equipment sales. How could they not? Especially when you see how high some people will bid, sight unseen, for items on these sites. EBay's current "Shop Victoriously!" ad campaign promotes that -- just bid till you win, winning is all!

Feh. I've been burned enough times. Now, I try to get a table with power at any hamfest I'm at. I'm going to sell you a rig or a computer? Before we close the deal, it's powered up, run through it's paces, and YOU will know exactly what it is or isn't doing. I once had a couple claim sold them a bum pair of IBM VGA monitors; turned out that they hooked them up to an SVGA card, even though they'd been told not to by someone else (wrong sync frequency if I remember correctly), and blew them out. After that, a monitor or a PC was hooked up and shown working before you left my table. Cut complaints down to almost non-existant.

If it's a major item (like an HF transceiver -- that con job on the butchered SR-150 still burns, and that's been almost 20 years!) that I'm interested in buying, then we bring it over to my table and do the same. You don't want to show me it works? Then I don't deal with you. Nothing personal.

But that's me, and I'm old-fashioned.

73

Technically, we could attempt to impose a "no sales no trade no nothing setup only" restriction before 8. But let's be honest... what's to stop me from saying "hey Joe, as soon as they open the doors, I'll give you $75 for your widget!" or "just set it aside for me, I'll give you the cash as soon as the clock turns 8" or anything along those lines? Nothing.

My thoughts exactly. The fact that table guys get in early gives them the chance to view items before 8:00AM, but the real problem here is the perception that others have of your group. If they perceive it as being a place where certain individuals have privileges that they don't have, you have a public relations issue. At least if you have a rule in place, you may not be able to stop the early trading, but the perception that it is working will be there.

[KC8TCQ]

Technically, we could attempt to impose a "no sales no trade no nothing setup only" restriction before 8.

It is almost impossible to stop that from happening completely. What you CAN do however is prevent them from carrying out the object of the trade/sale until the gates are opened. This way to the non-vendors nothing seems out of the ordinary.

[W3WN]

Technically, we could attempt to impose a "no sales no trade no nothing setup only" restriction before 8.

It is almost impossible to stop that from happening completely. What you CAN do however is prevent them from carrying out the object of the trade/sale until the gates are opened. This way to the non-vendors nothing seems out of the ordinary.
But how would you know?

Some vendors go back and forth, taking the empty boxes/containers back to their vehicle, or taking overstock back. How can you police that without getting petty or silly?

And let's face it... for all we know, the merchandise in question was brought in by that vendor, and he decided to put it back in his car. Why? Who knows? Maybe he was laughing, sarcastically, because he decided that he wasn't going to get the prices he wanted at his table, so he just put them back. How can we ever know?

Tell your complainers that this is what you believe happened and that there is no way to police the activity of people circulating their own property in and out of the door.

[W3ZR]

Over the years I too have seen what was described.

But my recommendation is to tell the complaintant to stop being
such a whiney little beyotch. Next year either pay for a table so he
to can be inside for the early deals, or stay home.

[N2RJ]

Yep, I agree. Can't please people.

The other option is to join your club and volunteer to help out with the hamfest... :)

[W1GUH]

I've heard that some people will pay for a table just to get in early. I've never had a reason to try that, really, but it seems to me that if that option is open (and how could it not be, really) nobody really has a reason to feel shut out. One could always have any old random junk to put on a table for appearances...hmmm...and maybe even sell something, at least when they get back to their table after checking out what's available.

[KB3LAZ]

Awww...this thread is mega old. I dont think the author even posts here anymore. :lol:

[M0GLO]

My only complaint is all the fat old dudes who show up.
Where are the chicks?

[WØTKX]

Instead of getting annoyed with the guy who came out with the stuff, I would get to know him, and his pals... once in the loop, your perspective will change.

Wheelers and dealers always operate this way, so it's more fun to play along. :mrgreen:

[KB3LAZ]

My only complaint is all the fat old dudes who show up.
Where are the chicks?

At the bar across the street... :wall

[N4VGB]

I once complained about this darkness upon hamfests also. Then I decided to light a candle and joined the early traders at hamfests. :D

All that is needed is to purchase a flea market space or table. :angel

[KB3LAZ]

I once complained about this darkness upon hamfests also. Then I decided to light a candle and joined the early traders at hamfests. :D

All that is needed is to purchase a flea market space or table. :angel

Well that is why it is dark. You setup too early. I realize that the early bird gets the worm but birds are not nocturnal. :lol:

[n6hcm]

My only complaint is all the fat old dudes who show up.
Where are the chicks?
they're with all the non-fat non-old dudes.

[kd6nig]

People try to do the same thing at yard sales. It got so bad that my parents used to put a rope across with a sign that said "Sale starts at 9am-no entry until then" because people would be showing up at 7:30 am when we were trying to still set stuff up and wanted to pick through stuff and haggle on prices already. This used to be an entire neighborhood sale so it would be huge.

People would still try to come in but we would tell them to leave. After that year and people still trying to, we moved the sale up to 10am but was ready to go by 8:30. People then complained that we opened early.

You can't satisfy anyone. I would tell them that its not your responsibility if people choose to sell their items prior to the event.

We also had issues with people showing up and wanting us to "hold" stuff for them. That resulted in a "first come, first pay, no holds" sign as well.

After the last time we let another neighbor run it instead :) We got sick of the people whining about things, or wanting to pay 50 cents for an item labelled a dollar. It was amazing the things people would gripe about.

[KB2SFH]

Early hagglers are hardly an issue with me since learning about underhanded practices going on among club hamfests "fixing" their door prize drawings so people they know will win. Once such instance that i wasn't aware of until today when a fellow ham I knew and i were talking about an incident that happened within our own club. My clubmate and i were both at the Splitrock hamfest back in the spring. He had actually witnessed this with his own eyes of the person doing the drawings would pick a winning ticket, checked the name to see if it was someone they knew, when it wasn't. the person put the ticket back and kept drawing and looking at them until they drew someone they knew and then awarded that prize. Why my friend didn't blow the whistle on that is beyond me, had I witnessed that I would have blown the whistle. As far as our own club, we had certain members of the club forcing a policy down our throats of members not being allowed to have their own selling spaces, but they had to utilize the club table, also members were NOT ALLOWED to buy tickets at the gate, nor were they allowed to purchase 50/50 tickets. so what happenes later on? An active member who had bought a ticket at the gate and entered the door prize drawings had won a prize. he apparantley wasn't there for the drawing, so the club member who knowingly sold him the ticket at the gate has accepted the prize for him. I was standing there when the ticket was drawn and read and disputed it with the caller of the ticket, he took back the prize. I went to the club meeting this past week and brought it up to the rest of the membership that wasn't aware this took place. The only thing accomplished was the officers making excuses for the incident because they really didn't want to deal with it, AND the other thing that was accomplished was they made a total jerk out of me for it for trying to fight for what was right considering it was their stupid policy they set down but they refuse to enforce :x

[K8YS]

when I followed the hamfest circuit, flashlight sales were always the best. Before the fest, after the public was run out, I'd walk around and make my buys.

you are not going to be able to stop off hours sales.

[KF2M]

As far as our own club, we had certain members of the club forcing a policy down our throats of members not being allowed to have their own selling spaces, but they had to utilize the club table, also members were NOT ALLOWED to buy tickets at the gate, nor were they allowed to purchase 50/50 tickets. so what happenes later on? An active member who had bought a ticket at the gate and entered the door prize drawings had won a prize. he apparantley wasn't there for the drawing, so the club member who knowingly sold him the ticket at the gate has accepted the prize for him. I was standing there when the ticket was drawn and read and disputed it with the caller of the ticket, he took back the prize. I went to the club meeting this past week and brought it up to the rest of the membership that wasn't aware this took place. The only thing accomplished was the officers making excuses for the incident because they really didn't want to deal with it, AND the other thing that was accomplished was they made a total jerk out of me for it for trying to fight for what was right considering it was their stupid policy they set down but they refuse to enforce :x

Nice club. I'm glad I hooked up with my current club (TCRA in Union). Nice little group, no games, no drama, no hassles.

[KB2SFH]

[/quote]
Nice club. I'm glad I hooked up with my current club (TCRA in Union). Nice little group, no games, no drama, no hassles.[/quote]


I was with them briefly back in mid 90's when I was newly licensed. Theyweren't a nice little group then(only a few nice people that I still speak to and work ve sessions with), and lots of games, drama and hassles.

[N8YX]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike clubs.

Another is the "Let's buy Expen$ive Repeater Item without benefit of a membership vote then stick the club with $50 per head to pay for it!" syndrome.

Suffice it to say that I made no friends with my "discussion" of the matter with the leadership during a club meeting. This in light of the fact that the existing piece of equipment (a repeater controller) was functioning just fine.

I cannot begin to count how many hamfest tickets I've bought over the years, and the law of averages tends to indicate that I should have won something by now. You may be onto a problem which is more widespread than just your local crowd, Sue...

[KB3LAZ]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike clubs.

Another is the "Let's buy Expen$ive Repeater Item without benefit of a membership vote then stick the club with $50 per head to pay for it!" syndrome.

Suffice it to say that I made no friends with my "discussion" of the matter with the leadership during a club meeting. This in light of the fact that the existing piece of equipment (a repeater controller) was functioning just fine.

I cannot begin to count how many hamfest tickets I've bought over the years, and the law of averages tends to indicate that I should have won something by now. You may be onto a problem which is more widespread than just your local crowd, Sue...

My grandpa is really lucky, he has won like five things in the past 10 or so years. A few Ht's, a few mobiles, and a TS-480! Lucky OM.

[kd6nig]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike clubs.

Another is the "Let's buy Expen$ive Repeater Item without benefit of a membership vote then stick the club with $50 per head to pay for it!" syndrome.


Yep. I left one for that very same reason. :) The timing was bad too-people were paying the annual dues ($20 if I remember right) and then they are hitting them up for $50 "or more" for that kind of thing.

There was a lot of "Why wasn't this brought to a vote, etc" stuff at that time too.

I guess its nice to have a robotic voice, to some. I don't monitor the repeater anymore either.